X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: pipers plaid

  1. #11
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    10,917
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas H View Post
    Can anyone wear a Fly Plaid or is it reserved for just Pipers and Military?
    Well that gets us into sticky terminology problems... because "fly plaid" is used for two rather different garments.

    What we might nowadays call a "fly plaid" is simply a square of tartan, fringed all round, put throught the epaulette and pinned with a brooch, the rest simply hanging down behind.

    As far as I can tell, this is a recent invention and was never, and is not today, worn by the Scottish regiments.

    What was, and is, worn by the Scottish regiments, is the garment which was always called in the old days the "belted plaid". (Not to be confused with the "great kilt" or feileadh-mor or breacan-an-feileadh.) But sometimes it was referred to as a "fly plaid".

    This is an elaborate garment. It is a square of tartan, with long rolled fringe on three sides. The fourth side is gathered and "let" into a narrow belt of the same tartan, which fastens around the waist with a buckle. On the side opposite the belt, a triangle of tartan is attached. It has matching long rolled fringe on two sides, the third side being gathered and sewn onto the body of the plaid. This tab of fringed tartan is put through the epaulette and pinned with a brooch.

    Here is one with the basting stitches still intact so you don't see its full width, nor can you see the entire cloth belt which goes round the waist.



    From the period which the feileadh-mor was discontinued in the Highland regiments (around 1800) this "belted plaid" was worn by all ranks in Full Dress to simulate the appearance the feileadh-mor. It continued to be worn by officers, and sometimes sergeants, and sometimes other ranks in Full Dress up to today.

    It is often called a "drummers' plaid" today, probably because drummers in military pipe bands have long worn them. Likewise the long plaid is often called a "pipers' plaid" though it was also worn by officers and certain sergeants in several Scottish regiments.

    The "belted plaid" was rarely worn by pipers, but I did come across a vintage photo of a piper of the Cameron Highlanders wearing one. (As opposed to hundreds of photos of pipers of the Cameron Highlanders wearing long plaids.)



    Here's the belted plaid's more usual role, worn by officers in Full Dress and Levee Dress



    Back to the long plaids, here's civilians wearing them with the front end fully showing





    Now here's a photo where the end in front is very short, but still visible



    In the old days the long plaid was just a rectangle of cloth, without formalised pleats, even in the Army



    This photo is interesting because it shows at even an early date less fabric being used for the long plaid. Originally it was a length of full-width kilting tartan. Here you can see a half-width plaid, which is the standard today. (The exception being the Scots Guards.)



    And lastly the typical mix of belted and long plaids in the same regiment, here the long plaids worn by pipers and a bandsman, short plaid by a sergeant (but not by the drummer)

    Last edited by OC Richard; 27th August 11 at 04:27 AM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    3rd January 06
    Location
    Dorset, on the South coast of England
    Posts
    4,436
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In bad weather and when drumming for the Border Morris I wear a long plaid, very useful as I wear the drum on my right hip - something to do with being left handed.

    By accident I made it a bit long, so I have enough fabric to put folds under the drum to keep the metal bits from hurting me.

    I wear it in the civillian rather than military style, so the ends fall front and back. Rather than use a broach - which would interfere with the shoulder strap I use to help support the drum, I use a loop of cord to hold the two layers of folded fabric and then wrap it under my right arm and tie it close to the left shoulder. That stops the plaid sliding off the shoulder and is essential when walking in a procession.

    Spreading both parts of the plaid across the body and opening out the pleats keeps off wind and rain and helps maintain body temperature - so much so that water vapour condenses over me as I dry off.

    Anne the Pleater :ootd:

  3. #13
    Join Date
    1st August 11
    Location
    Villa Rica Georgia
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Thank You

    Ok that was was awsome ! But is it OK for me to wear a Small Fly Plaid?
    With my Ferguson Kilt to the Highland games?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    5th November 08
    Location
    Marion, NC
    Posts
    4,940
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas H View Post
    Ok that was was awsome ! But is it OK for me to wear a Small Fly Plaid?
    With my Ferguson Kilt to the Highland games?
    Yes, if you want to, but fly plaids are usually thought of as more of a formal sort of thing to wear, and the breeze will blow it around, usually where you don't want it to be. If you'd like something a bit more versatile, which you can use to wrap up in when the weather is chilly (like Stone Mountain was two years ago), you might think about one of these.
    --dbh

    When given a choice, most people will choose.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,711
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas H View Post
    Ok that was was awsome ! But is it OK for me to wear a Small Fly Plaid?
    With my Ferguson Kilt to the Highland games?
    Sure, it's OK, in the sense that nobody is going to arrest you. They may chuckle behind your back, though. Some may even comment on it. Fly plaids usually aren't used for casual affairs like a Highland Games. As Jock would say, "It just isn't done, old boy."

    But again, it is your decision. Wear it if you like, and ignore the critics.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    10,917
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The traditional "belted plaid" (which I describe in full above) was, and is, worn with civilian Evening Dress.

    Here it is, called a "belted plaid", in a 1930 catalogue



    and in an old photo



    The modern "fly plaid" is a cheaper, simpler version.

    It wasn't worn with Day Dress.

    With Day Dress, in the old days, was often worn the long plaid, which was also worn with Evening Dress at that time.

    Here are vintage photos and paintings showing the long plaid worn with Day Dress









    In the 20th century it's the "Laird's plaid" or a tartan blanket placed over the shoulder.

    Last edited by OC Richard; 20th August 11 at 07:38 PM.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    1st August 11
    Location
    Villa Rica Georgia
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Thank You

    These pictures are Very nice!!!

  8. #18
    Join Date
    24th January 08
    Location
    Oxford/London UK
    Posts
    123
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    ................ we took the left-shoulder shell off our doublet, and twisted that short end of the plaid and formed it more or less to the shape of the missing shell, tucking it in somewhere (I forget just where). The old guy in the band had served with the Cameron Highlanders in WWII and presumably had got this method there.
    This is the correct method for a piper as I have also been taught by many ex-army pipers

  9. #19
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    10,917
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by londonpiper View Post
    This is the correct method for a piper as I have also been taught by many ex-army pipers
    Well I would hesitate to call it the correct method, because of many images of military men, many of them the very Pipe Majors and Drum Majors who would be teaching the pipers of the regiment how to put their plaids on.

    Above I posted photos of Scots Guards pipers and a Gordon Highlander piper, all with the left-shoulder shell visible.

    Here are more:













    and I could post dozens more.

    BUT what about these? Here is Pipe Major Evan MacRae of the QOCH (during the period they wore Royal Stewart) and it's quite possible that he's using that method (removing the left-shoulder shell). He was one of my teachers at piping school in the early 80s, a lovely man. What's interesting is the postcard above showing a piper of the same regiment at around the same time with that shell showing.



    And what about these Argylls? They might be using that method too.



    And here's an Argyll PM of over 100 years ago (93rd Highlanders actually), perhaps doing likewise


  10. #20
    Mike_Oettle's Avatar
    Mike_Oettle is offline Oops, it seems this member needs to update their email address
    Join Date
    9th June 10
    Location
    Port Elizabeth, Eastern Cape, South Africa
    Posts
    3,121
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Many thanks, DBH, for the link to Matthew’s article.
    I don’t see myself wearing any kind of plaid in the near future, but if I ever get one, I think it would be the kind Matt describes.
    Regards,
    Mike
    The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life.
    [Proverbs 14:27]

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Seaforth Pipers Plaid
    By glasgow32 in forum How to Accessorize your Kilt
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 9th June 11, 03:55 AM
  2. Need to replace a Pipers Plaid
    By LadyGriffin in forum Kilt Advice
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 17th December 09, 05:36 PM
  3. A great use for a Stillwater pipers plaid!
    By Nighthawk in forum General Kilt Talk
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 1st November 09, 02:24 PM
  4. Pipers plaid/ fly plaid
    By gasbag in forum How to Accessorize your Kilt
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 22nd June 09, 05:06 AM
  5. Military pipers plaid
    By culbokie in forum How to Accessorize your Kilt
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 18th October 08, 03:17 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0