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Thread: 275 Years!

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobus View Post
    Probably not. Even though that's a longer continuous history of kilt-wearing than the Scots can claim!
    You can't blame native Scots for feeling that way. It is their Traditional dress...something they regard with pride and respect.

    I suspect any objections have far more to do with the liberties that are taken with the kilt than the locale.
    DWFII--Traditionalist and Auld Crabbit
    In the Highlands of Central Oregon

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
    You can't blame native Scots for feeling that way. It is their Traditional dress...something they regard with pride and respect.

    I suspect any objections have far more to do with the liberties that are taken with the kilt than the locale.
    And don't forget that Highland dress was worn continuously for far longer than that - it's just that the relative few that chose to did so at their own peril while the Act of Proscription was in effect.

    In my book, that gives griping rights - but not rights to keep me from wearing my kilt!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
    I suspect any objections have far more to do with the liberties that are taken with the kilt than the locale.
    I have long thought this also DFWII
    Shoot straight you bastards. Don't make a mess of it. Harry (Breaker) Harbord Morant - Bushveldt Carbineers

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
    You can't blame native Scots for feeling that way. It is their Traditional dress...something they regard with pride and respect.

    I suspect any objections have far more to do with the liberties that are taken with the kilt than the locale.
    I suspect you are right and I as a native born Scot support the right of anyone to wear the kilt, if for no other reason than my son is American born. He's a regular Yankee Doodle Dandy born in Boston on the Fourth of July and I have had him wearing the kilt since he was thirteen months old (he's now three). I want him to grow up as an American proud of his Scots origins.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
    You can't blame native Scots for feeling that way. It is their Traditional dress...something they regard with pride and respect.

    I suspect any objections have far more to do with the liberties that are taken with the kilt than the locale.
    Years ago, when my wife and I moved to Japan, one of the things that baffled us beyond words was how Japanese young people embraced Western culture and dress, and yet, seemed to understand nothing about what it was, its significance, nor did they have ANY desire to learn. This was especially prominent in hip-hop subculture, where you'd get teens walking around with baggy jeans with one pant leg rolled up. Or Malcolm X ball caps and T-shirts... They were blindly imitating something and had absolutely no clue what it is that they were imitating.

    In fact, hip-hop shops tend to be quite popular here... Clothing stores where they sell the baggy jeans, basketball jerseys, bling, reggae-branded items, etc... And because it's often associated with African-American culture, these shops hire black staff exclusively, to complete the "authentic" image for their young customers... Now, your average Japanese teen speaks English about as well as I can speak Scottish Gaelic, so it really doesn't matter to them, that the ONLY thing that makes these shopkeepers "authentic" is maybe the colour of their skin. Otherwise, they all come from Africa -- Nigeria, Sudan, Cameroon... Their culture is African, their accent is African, and the only thing they know about hip-hop is from what they've seen on MTV. For them, personally, it couldn't be any further from who they are. They're also some of the nicest people you meet when they're not putting on a "lived-in-da-hood, pop-a-cap-in-yo'-a**, done hard time attitude" for the customers. I've gone out drinking with some of these guys on several occasions. A few of them even have advanced university degrees. One fellow was a researcher back home, but needed money so he came here for a couple years.

    So yes, this "sham culture" and blind ignorance of it annoyed us. But not only us -- a number of Western journalists, sociologists, and anthropologists tackled this phenomenon in a number of ways, as it was also fascinating to them. I read a number of newspaper articles where they would go out and find youth wearing Malcolm X clothing and interview them.

    "Excuse me, do you know who Malcolm X was?"

    "Who?"

    "Malcolm X. I see you're wearing a Malcolm X hat."

    "Oh. No, sorry. I have no idea. I bought it 'cause it looks good."

    But the longer we lived here, the more I started to realize, that beyond the outward appearance of being Western, the Japanese adoption of American fashion and symbols was no more American than rice & fish for breakfast. And to trying to MAKE them understand these things in the American context was also, in some ways, disingenuous. Japan has a long-standing tradition of taking all the "best" things that the world has to offer, dumping it into a great, big Japanizing machine, turning the crank, and spitting out products that are uniquely Japanese. Fashion, music, and (sub)cultures are no exception.

    A good example is reggae. While it started out as a simple import from the West, it soon gave way to imitation. Then, imitation gave way to innovation. Then, as innovation thrived, the end result was something that was unique. Japanese reggae has been legitimized and you can even find a brief article on it in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_reggae. Nowadays, very few people would try and say that the Japanese are just imitating something that's not theirs, although you will ALWAYS have the few people who will bemoan the fact that they are ignorant about Reggae's long, colourful history, and that while every schoolchild knows Bob Marley, but you mention "Johnny Nash" and you get blank stares...

    That is the point at which we all find ourselves at a crossroads, and at different points in our journey through understanding and acceptance. I've gone a long ways from shaking my head at Japanese teens, thinking "poseurs." Nowadays, I think I realize that to THEM, they are simply following popular JAPANESE culture -- not popular American culture.

    Much the same way, I think many Scots find themselves in a similar position. They are looking at the world outside the Scottish Highlands, befuddled (and sometimes even slightly peeved) when they see Highland attire being worn outside their borders, and by foreigners to boot. If you recall from a recent post by Jock Scot, all the respondents of their kilt Q&A parlor game were in a similar age bracket -- late 60s, early 70s)... Many will never get over those feelings, (nor should they, necessarily) though I do believe that over time, and with progressive younger generations, this too will change. But part of this change also requires realizing and accepting that as kilts move past the borders of the Scottish Highlands, many of the traditions, customs for wearing it "properly," and everything about it are bound to change as well. At some point, will perhaps come the understanding that it is no longer imitation, but innovation that has taken over... And that's a game-changer. Much like in Darwinian evolution, at some point, with sufficient microevolutionary changes, a species may diverge into two, distinct animals.

    I'm no sociologist here, but I do believe that this is what's happening with Highland attire in North America. Importation, Imitation, Innovation. And we are slowly transitioning through these stages. While many of us still import our kilts (and accessories) from Scotland (importation) we also have many (very) talented kiltmakers who are native to Canada and the US practicing traditional Scottish kiltmaking (imitation), and that has spurred companies like Utilikilts, who never actually even intended to imitate a traditional Scottish kilt, merely use it as inspiration to create something new (innovation). But since it's not a discreet process, and we have examples of all three stages of evolution, we get people who are "stuck" in their befuddlement of what's going on... And that doesn't just mean Highland Scots who can't comprehend the wearing of the kilt outside their borders, but equally, jeans-wearing Americans who look at a kilted man with contempt, and ask, "Why on earth would anyone want to wear such a thing?"

  6. #16
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    CDNSushi,

    I agree with a lot of what you say, and I believe that cultural exchange runs in both (or many) directions. As far as the kilt is concerned well the genie is out the bottle long ago. However, Jock and people who hold similar opinions to him are (IMHO) merely trying to explain the customs and living heritage from which the modern kilt and civilian highland dress (of which it is an essential part) have been nurtured for nearly 200 years.

    There is much about American life and culture I truly admire. I even get that there are always opportunities to reinvent oneself because living here over the past eight years has caused all sort of subtle changes to my attitudes and outlook as I progress through my life journey. I know I am not expressing this as well as I should, but the experience of making your home in another country changes you even though you paradoxically retain your essence of self (as I am sure living in Japan has done for you). I am thinking here along the lines of the dialectic contradiction of a 6-year-old boy who becomes a 60-year-old man, the same person but different- or the acorn and the oak tree, the same essence but different. I also think that for those of us in that situation, we need some ballast in order not to get lost in a constantly changing culture which often mixes different ethnic traditions haphazardly.

    This is where awareness of tradition evolving slowly over generations of custom and habit as posited by Edmund Burke or David Hume is a helpful and necessary corrective. Note, I said tradition not some fixed period in History (valid though that may be), if only to remind ourselves that the kilt is still hugely symbolic of a living culture held dear by many people.

    None of this discussion is about morality or life and death it's about different experiences and perspectives on a much loved item of clothing and what it represents.
    Last edited by Peter Crowe; 6th September 11 at 07:51 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gradatim Vincemus View Post
    ...
    This is where awareness of tradition evolving slowly over generations of custom and habit as posited by Edmund Burke or David Hume is a helpful and necessary corrective. Note, I said tradition not some fixed period in History (valid though that may be), ...


    Just wondering, to which work by David Hume are you refering? I'm interested in having a look.
    I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
    Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…

  8. #18
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    Though a true United States of American midwesterner with eastern and a bit of western Euro gene pool, gotta admit, on trips to Europe, there was no "disgust" or disdain" of Eurofolk wearing blue jeans or baseball caps. Kinda "global-amusing," actually.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbear View Post
    Just wondering, to which work by David Hume are you refering? I'm interested in having a look.
    If memory serves (it's been a while since I read it), Hume's 'Enquiry on Human Understanding'

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gradatim Vincemus View Post
    If memory serves (it's been a while since I read it), Hume's 'Enquiry on Human Understanding'

    Thank you.
    I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
    Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…

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