Writing one's clan chief

**ScotFree** · 6th August 12, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Chas

I have scanned six pages of Debrett's Correct Form - the last word, I think, on Titles, Style and Precedence in the UK and the rest of the World.

This should give all the information required for, writing to, speaking to and speaking about, your Chief. It does require you to know your chief's name and designation and titles (if any).

Regards

Chas

Superb information. Thank you Chas! I never thought to look in Debrett's. They are rather the acknowledged authority on these things. Its just the information I was looking for.

**EagleJCS** · 6th August 12, 11:13 AM

OK. Thanks Chas, that makes it somewhat clearer, but what if one's chief is holder of a title in the peerage, such as Earl, Marquis, or even Duke?

To quote Debrett's (from p. 90 of Chas's scans):

"In Scotland, it is normal to write to chiefs, chieftans and lairds by their designation or estate and not by their surname."

But on p. 91, when discussing a female chief:

"If she possesses a title, she is addressed as such."

Do I take it, then, that the highest title is the one to go by, even if you're writing the individual in question in their capacity as chief of one's clan?

**Chas** · 6th August 12, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by EagleJCS

OK. Thanks Chas, that makes it somewhat clearer, but what if one's chief is holder of a title in the peerage, such as Earl, Marquis, or even Duke?

To quote Debrett's (from p. 90 of Chas's scans):

But on p. 91, when discussing a female chief:

Do I take it, then, that the highest title is the one to go by, even if you're writing the individual in question in their capacity as chief of one's clan?

I cannot say that I am an expert on this, but I think that there is a difference between a clansman writing to his Chief (where it would be Dear Chief (p90)) and you or me writing to some chief or other enquiring about the use of their field for a local horse show. In which case I would use the highest title and their chiefly title together (Your grace the Duke of Dinnerplate, Chief of Clan Teacup).

Like a lot of these things, conventions have evolved over the years through use or lack of use and anomalies arise. Often it is important, but those that need to know, know, and the rest of us just have to get on with it.

Regards

Chas

**Chas** · 6th August 12, 11:50 AM

Do I take it, then, that the highest title is the one to go by, even if you're writing the individual in question in their capacity as chief of one's clan?

I think that as a general rule of thumb, you are correct - go for the highest title. There are exceptions. One being the military, where the rank comes first - Captain the Lord Teacup or Major Doctor Jones.

There is also a thing called Courtesy Titles. If a man is the Earl of Highchair, he might very well also hold a lower title (Baron Footstool) which is loaned to his eldest son during the father's lifetime by courtesy. So if we address the Baron Footstool, Chief of Clan Heartrug, we will be addressing the Chief's son and not the Chief.

This works in all walks of life. When I was growing up, I learned who I had to call Sir and who I could call Mr Jones. Who I could call George and who I could call Oi You Idiot. This has stood me in good stead throughout my life.

Regards

Chas

**Father Bill** · 6th August 12, 05:30 PM

I love this sort of information and may yet have cause to use it. Thanks so much Chas!

**Oldhiker** · 8th August 12, 08:02 AM

I addressed my chief as Father when I met him in 2006.

Fr Peter Lamont is a catholic priest in Australia. He is not very active in the Clan as his boss keeps him busy.

**AJBryant** · 8th August 12, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Oldhiker

I addressed my chief as Father when I met him in 2006.

Fr Peter Lamont is a catholic priest in Australia. He is not very active in the Clan as his boss keeps him busy.

I can see that. He's got a great retirement plan and golden hal... er, parachute lined up, though.

**ThistleDown** · 8th August 12, 01:01 PM

It is correct to address your chief by his territorial or Lyon designation. It is not necessary to use the highest title. So "Cluny", "Lochiel", "Lamont", "Elgin", "Argyll", etc., despite their other forms of recognition as knights, members of religious orders, or of the peerage. The context takes precedence and you are addressing him as patriarch/head of the family.