'Black tie' questions

[creagdhubh]

Cushnie was one of my dearest friends -- and I can assure you that the hose David is wearing in this picture are tan, not off white! (And yes, he really did hand out cards that had ACBW printed on them!)

Wonderful!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

A few words about David Lumsden of Cushnie, and his famous ACBW cards, would seem to be in order. For those who didn't know David, I should like to point out that he was a most genial gentlemen. At 6'4" tall, and a former athlete (played polo, rowed at Cambridge), to mention nothing of his time in Africa during the Mau Mau rebellion where he actively engaged the insurgents in the bush, David was more than capable of dealing with those he deemed offensive, especially if they became physical. I well remember a September evening in Edinburgh when David and I were waiting for a taxi and David was accosted by a thick set man in his thirties who obviously thought he was tougher than the 60+ year old Baron of Cushnie. Annoyed that Cushnie was ignoring him, the thug made the grave error of poking David in the chest with his finger. Fast as lightning David grabbed the man's arm, spun him around, dislocating the thug's shoulder, and rammed him face-first into the lamp post at the taxi rank. The confrontation was over in a few seconds...

If the recipient of one of David's ACBW cards asked of its meaning, David would, in the most jovial (and conspiratorial) manner gently explain why "white socks" weren't "the done thing". No one, at least as far as I'm aware, ever took offense at David's rather amusing "sock lectures", and if they had, I'm sure he would have been the first to apologize for having caused offense when he merely meant to tease.

I'm also quite sure that he'd have had no trouble putting down anyone who wanted to express their sense of indignation in a physical manner.

[creagdhubh]

A few words about David Lumsden of Cushnie, and his famous ACBW cards, would seem to be in order. For those who didn't know David, I should like to point out that he was a most genial gentlemen. At 6'4" tall, and a former athlete (played polo, rowed at Cambridge), to mention nothing of his time in Africa during the Mau Mau rebellion where he actively engaged the insurgents in the bush, David was more than capable of dealing with those he deemed offensive, especially if they became physical. I well remember a September evening in Edinburgh when David and I were waiting for a taxi and David was accosted by a thick set man in his thirties who obviously thought he was tougher than the 60+ year old Baron of Cushnie. Annoyed that Cushnie was ignoring him, the thug made the grave error of poking David in the chest with his finger. Fast as lightning David grabbed the man's arm, spun him around, dislocating the thug's shoulder, and rammed him face-first into the lamp post at the taxi rank. The confrontation was over in a few seconds...

If the recipient of one of David's ACBW cards asked of its meaning, David would, in the most jovial (and conspiratorial) manner gently explain why "white socks" weren't "the done thing". No one, at least as far as I'm aware, ever took offense at David's rather amusing "sock lectures", and if they had, I'm sure he would have been the first to apologize for having caused offense when he merely meant to tease.

I'm also quite sure that he'd have had no trouble putting down anyone who wanted to express their sense of indignation in a physical manner.

Thank you for sharing this, Scott!

Best wishes,

[macwilkin]

A few words about David Lumsden of Cushnie, and his famous ACBW cards, would seem to be in order. For those who didn't know David, I should like to point out that he was a most genial gentlemen. At 6'4" tall, and a former athlete (played polo, rowed at Cambridge), to mention nothing of his time in Africa during the Mau Mau rebellion where he actively engaged the insurgents in the bush, David was more than capable of dealing with those he deemed offensive, especially if they became physical. I well remember a September evening in Edinburgh when David and I were waiting for a taxi and David was accosted by a thick set man in his thirties who obviously thought he was tougher than the 60+ year old Baron of Cushnie. Annoyed that Cushnie was ignoring him, the thug made the grave error of poking David in the chest with his finger. Fast as lightning David grabbed the man's arm, spun him around, dislocating the thug's shoulder, and rammed him face-first into the lamp post at the taxi rank. The confrontation was over in a few seconds...

If the recipient of one of David's ACBW cards asked of its meaning, David would, in the most jovial (and conspiratorial) manner gently explain why "white socks" weren't "the done thing". No one, at least as far as I'm aware, ever took offense at David's rather amusing "sock lectures", and if they had, I'm sure he would have been the first to apologize for having caused offense when he merely meant to tease.

I'm also quite sure that he'd have had no trouble putting down anyone who wanted to express their sense of indignation in a physical manner.

I wonder if any of those cards are still around? I'd love to see one after hearing so much about them.

Lux Perpetua...

[Phil]

At 6'4" tall, and a former athlete (played polo, rowed at Cambridge), to mention nothing of his time in Africa during the Mau Mau rebellion where he actively engaged the insurgents in the bush, David was more than capable of dealing with those he deemed offensive, especially if they became physical.

I am not sure that this colonial episode was one of our finest moments - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20543140 - or - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...british-empire - none of which tends to endear one to the individuals concerned.

[TheOfficialBren]

From what I've gleaned over the years, I think you're spot on. A turn-down collar shirt with studs is perfect for black tie. Solid-colour hose (anything but white) is perfectly acceptable, and probably even the best choice if you're trying to be conservatively within tradition. I don't think matching tartan hose are too much for black tie, but that's just me. If anything, I think tartan hose are perfect for black tie and diced hose are perfect for white tie.

Personally, I dislike black hose almost as much as white hose. Too extreme. I much prefer a middle-of-the-road approach with a colour that is neither too loud nor too boring.

***, Tobus.

Kyle, I agree with Tobus about those hose. I think he was wearing oatmeal hose but in vintage photos, as I'm sure you know, colours tend to wash out.

[The Wizard of BC]

As I tend to dress in a bit more modern style I own no diced hose.

But I am asked, on occasion, to speak at events where the invitation states "Black Tie".

In the civilian world "Black Tie" means Tuxedo, so I take as my guidelines what would be appropriate for civilian Tuxedo.

In this photo I chose to wear my wing collar shirt but any tuxedo shirt would work just fine.

I also chose to wear charcoal hose. There is really nothing wrong with cream hose but I did not think they would be 'somber' enough for this particular event.

If you are catching a hint here. My general rule of thumb is to match my dress to the level of formality and to what others would be wearing to the event.
I very seldom attend events where "Scottish Highland Dress" is specified on the invitation.



We will probably never settle the hose color dilemma. Almost every Scottish based website you visit will show white or cream hose for tuxedo level events. Most people starting out wearing the kilt will use these as their guide so we cannot fault them. They would naturally think, "The Scots tell us this is what is expected".

This is also one, of only three times I have ever worn Ghillie Brogues. The only reason I even have a pair is that a customer came into the shop and handed me his pair. He stated he would never wear them again and they happen to be my perfect size.

[Phil]

Hello Jacobite Laddie and welcome to the Forum. I don't know who is likely to be at your 'black tie' event but if my experience is anything to go by everyone will be wearing PC's with white or off-white hose, ghillie brogues and wing collar shirts with pre-tied bow ties. They will look at anyone dressed differently with mild incomprehension so please don't get yourself tied in a knot about the niceties of Highland dress as pontificated by the likes of Lumsden of Cushnie or whoever. If you are on a budget then follow the herd and you will enjoy yourself. If money is no object go along to a good tailor and start competing with the likes of Lumsden of Cushnie if that is what you want to do. I wouldn't recommend Kinloch Anderson though as they stopped doing bespoke tailoring when they left George Street and moved down to Leith. Try Stewart Christie instead for a top class bespoke product. Get that velvet Montrose you always wanted, those full tartan hose you really must have, that sterling silver cantled sporan that is essential to the image, those patent buckle brogues to complete the 'authentic' look. But then will you enjoy yourself any more?

[Zardoz]

As I tend to dress in a bit more modern style I own no diced hose.

But I am asked, on occasion, to speak at events where the invitation states "Black Tie".

In the civilian world "Black Tie" means Tuxedo, so I take as my guidelines what would be appropriate for civilian Tuxedo.

In this photo I chose to wear my wing collar shirt but any tuxedo shirt would work just fine.

I also chose to wear charcoal hose. There is really nothing wrong with cream hose but I did not think they would be 'somber' enough for this particular event.

If you are catching a hint here. My general rule of thumb is to match my dress to the level of formality and to what others would be wearing to the event.
I very seldom attend events where "Scottish Highland Dress" is specified on the invitation.



We will probably never settle the hose color dilemma. Almost every Scottish based website you visit will show white or cream hose for tuxedo level events. Most people starting out wearing the kilt will use these as their guide so we cannot fault them. They would naturally think, "The Scots tell us this is what is expected".

This is also one, of only three times I have ever worn Ghillie Brogues. The only reason I even have a pair is that a customer came into the shop and handed me his pair. He stated he would never wear them again and they happen to be my perfect size.

Agree on all of that Steve! The charcoal hose would be my recommendation as well. Personally I think I dislike 'cream' hose more than white, they just look like dirty white hose to me!
And thanks for posting an actual picture of black-tie wear!

[JSFMACLJR]

Hello Jacobite Leader,
I've been to a fair number of black tie and white tie events in the Highlands. Without a doubt, coloured hose are worn frequently, and by young and old alike. Now, I generally prefer to wear diced hose in the evening, but for house parties and such I do like red, or claret, or green...even yellow hose. I DO NOT like white, or off-white/cream, or black hose! Yes, one sees them--even in the best houses and the best balls-- but they just don't look nice to me. I'm sure your grandfather would agree.

You cannot go wrong with a marcella dress shirt with a soft collar for black tie, or a pleated shirt.