great photo of high-rise Army kilt

[creagdhubh]

I have one Gordon kilt with a military rise, my other kilts are made with a 3" rise as well. Not as high a rise as my military, 1" less but it is perfect for eliminating the gap that some display between waistcoat and kilt top. It is also a bit warmer for winter, this is more appreciated the older I get!

Precisely!

[Tobus]

The other issue is tartan. I guess I could get a used military kilt in Black Watch because it is universal, but I don't feel much of a connection to it. That leaves getting one made, which is an expensive proposition...

Aren't all the regimental tartans considered universal like Black Watch?

Thanks for the description of your experience with yours. Is it extra heavyweight wool? How does it compare to your other kilts in terms of keeping you warm?

Uh, I'm a Texan. We don't think in terms of keeping warm! Rather the opposite - we think in terms of keeping cool. This kilt is indeed a heavyweight wool, although I wouldn't be able to tell whether it's 18 or 22 oz. I'd guess 18, though.

But as I've stated elsewhere, it's really the yardage in the kilt that makes the difference in heat retention, not the weight of the wool. This kilt has a lot of material in it. So it's pretty warm. And since it goes higher up, it does tend to retain more heat in one's core area. But I daresay that if you were wearing it in winter, your core area is going to be covered by a sweather, jacket, or other garments anyway. So the additional insulation it provides up there probably isn't going to make a huge difference.

[CMcG]

Aren't all the regimental tartans considered universal like Black Watch?

We'd have to consult an expert, but I thought some regiments use actual clan tartans? I know Black Watch is the same sett as Campbell, but in darker shades, which distances it a bit from the clan tartan... either way, I don't feel as much connection to a universal tartan, compared to either my clan tartan or a district tartan that I'm associated with.

...
Uh, I'm a Texan. We don't think in terms of keeping warm! Rather the opposite - we think in terms of keeping cool. This kilt is indeed a heavyweight wool, although I wouldn't be able to tell whether it's 18 or 22 oz. I'd guess 18, though.

But as I've stated elsewhere, it's really the yardage in the kilt that makes the difference in heat retention, not the weight of the wool. This kilt has a lot of material in it. So it's pretty warm. And since it goes higher up, it does tend to retain more heat in one's core area. But I daresay that if you were wearing it in winter, your core area is going to be covered by a sweather, jacket, or other garments anyway. So the additional insulation it provides up there probably isn't going to make a huge difference.

Ah, I see I should have translated my question into "Texan" and asked if your military kilt keeps you less cool than your other kilts

When it comes to winter clothing, layering is key so I suspect a 4" rise would make a 2" warmth difference over standard rise. It also makes sense that more yardage = more wool, which should also help. I find it hard to believe, however, that weight doesn't matter. It seems logical that 22oz wool would make a difference in heat retention over 11oz... but maybe the difference between 16oz and 18oz, wouldn't be too noticeable.

I also recall someone doing a scientific measurement on Xmarks that found box pleats were better than knife pleats in the winter because they swing and swish less vigorously, which keeps more warm air trapped under the kilt. I can't seem to find it just now... was it maybe Kilted Hiker who wrote that up?

[Tobus]

We'd have to consult an expert, but I thought some regiments use actual clan tartans? I know Black Watch is the same sett as Campbell, but in darker shades, which distances it a bit from the clan tartan... either way, I don't feel as much connection to a universal tartan, compared to either my clan tartan or a district tartan that I'm associated with.

Yep, I think most regimental tartans are based on clan tartans from the original heads of the regiments, but they are still considered universal due to their military use. And especially with the discernible difference in build for military kilts, it seems that people instantly recognise a military kilt as being what it is, rather than a typical clan-tartan kilt. But I can understand not wanting to wear a tartan that's not significant to you. On the flip side, though, it would be a rare thing indeed to see a military-style kilt in a civilian clan (i.e. non-military associated) tartan. Might be kinda neat, though! It would depend on the tartan.

Ah, I see I should have translated my question into "Texan" and asked if your military kilt keeps you less cool than your other kilts

When it comes to winter clothing, layering is key so I suspect a 4" rise would make a 2" warmth difference over standard rise. It also makes sense that more yardage = more wool, which should also help. I find it hard to believe, however, that weight doesn't matter. It seems logical that 22oz wool would make a difference in heat retention over 11oz... but maybe the difference between 16oz and 18oz, wouldn't be too noticeable.

I also recall someone doing a scientific measurement on Xmarks that found box pleats were better than knife pleats in the winter because they swing and swish less vigorously, which keeps more warm air trapped under the kilt. I can't seem to find it just now... was it maybe Kilted Hiker who wrote that up?

I actually seem to recall the opposite from that thread - although I admit my memory often plays tricks on me. I remember it as being explained that box pleats tend to get a bellows effect going as you walk, which moves more air and increases the transfer of heat, where knife pleats just swing back and forth.

I'm sure fabric weight plays a small part, especially when making big comparisons like 11 oz to 22 oz. But in the smaller increments, like 16 oz to 18 oz, it's hardly noticeable.

[MacCathmhaoil]

But as I've stated elsewhere, it's really the yardage in the kilt that makes the difference in heat retention, not the weight of the wool.

I would argue this, if I wear my 22 oz. military 8 yard kilt it is noticeably warmer than my 8 yard 13 oz and even any of my 16 oz. All are 8 yards the only variable is fabric weight. I would invite you to test out your theory on one of our " less than hospitable" February nights when the thermometer drops to -40. You may at that point wish to re-jig that belief!

[CMcG]

I actually seem to recall the opposite from that thread - although I admit my memory often plays tricks on me. I remember it as being explained that box pleats tend to get a bellows effect going as you walk, which moves more air and increases the transfer of heat, where knife pleats just swing back and forth.

I found Tartan Hiker's thread:
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...at-loss-44833/

His conclusions about heat retention appears to have more to do with yardage than pleat style. Higher yardage equals more swinging swish while walking, which bellows out the warm air from under the kilt. While standing, however, the extra material of a higher yardage kilt appears to retain more warmth.

[Roderick Powell]

I am still trying to get a reply.perhaps I am a bit lost in the forum.
I am looking for a warm military kilt for the winter. probably 16 18 oz wool.
I found a military kilt supplier. detailing NATO stock no kilt as size one.
My guess is that the kilt would be too long for me if it were worn upto ribcage as I currently wear my old kilt to give me fall to top of knee cop. This I consider to be comfortable and correct.
Based on previous information the length of this kilt would be too long.
I have been lead to believe the regimental kiltmaker got his soldier to kneel on the floor and could get a rough guess to the correct hight of the hem,as I call it, by placing a fag packet (ciggarette packet) on the floof and using this as a trammel to get the correct hight if the hem came to the top of the knee cap.
Perhaps one of the rabble could clarify if the kiltmaker could actually cut, say, two inches off the hem,and make the hem neat.
Or is the lenght of material cut from the top of the kilt ?
The photos of WW1 kilties in their barracks,which I have seen, show the top of the kilt waist band being under the rib cage and probablly two to four inches a above a standard army webbing belt.
The kilt reaches to the top of the knee.
As I am only five foot five, would the alternative be to wear a standard issue kilt , uncut with a very high waist, as shown in your photograph ?

Was the wearer in your photo shorter like me ?
Is there a relative scale to the soldiers height in your photo,? or have I lost the plot.

Roddy

[Paul Henry]

Roddy,
Kilts can be hemmed without much of a problem, but there are some who frown upon this, but I think it can be done almost invisibly and it is often done without most people noticing. The only occasion wehre there might be an issue with a band or uniform where the "sett" might be at different levels on different men, but if if it a personal kilt I don't think there woud be a problem.
I would really hesitate to cut fabric off the bottom of the kilt preferring to fold it back and hand sew, and re press carefully
In an ideal world the kilt would be shortened from the top, but this means almost rebuilding the entire kilt so a very costly process , so seldom done.

[Chas]

but I think it can be done almost invisibly and it is often done without most people noticing.

I agree with Paul. I have a McLeod Hunting which I like to wear when long distance driving. There is a 2" hem. Even after I tell people that it is hemmed, they don't believe it. I usually have to show them.

[TheOfficialBren]

I wonder if that the man in the top photo is a very short man hiking his government issued kilt farther up to compensate for his short stature and wear the bottom at his unit's regulation height? I'm using his sporran as a frame of reference.