Who Belongs to the Clan?

**Johnny Selkie** · 3rd September 13, 11:15 AM

So if I've met an Clan Chief in person and pledged allegiance to him and asked to be his clansman based on historical/cultural connections and he didn't have any objections against that, am I just as much a clanmember as those who are paying clan society dues or how does this work?

**Thomas H** · 3rd September 13, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Johnny Selkie

So if I've met an Clan Chief in person and pledged allegiance to him and asked to be his clansman and he hasn't had any objections against that. Am I just as much a clanmember as those who are paying clan society dues or how does this work?

it differ's from clan to clan - But Fergusson is a Society and there is a Due once a year of $ 25.00 which we dont mind paying at all - as we get that back in new letters , but if you were
signed up - no one would ever question you about you inportance as a member . we would just greet you as family .
http://www.cfsna.net/

**Father Bill** · 3rd September 13, 12:33 PM

The difference between a clan, to which you belong either by birth or by adoption such as you have undergone and on the other hand a clan association to which you pay dues, comes up here from time to time. Generally, a clan association is a club for those who choose to join, and in which membership is generally dependent on existing membership (again by birth or adoption) in the clan itself. You don't pay dues to belong to a clan, just the association or "club."

**Thomas H** · 3rd September 13, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Father Bill

The difference between a clan, to which you belong either by birth or by adoption such as you have undergone and on the other hand a clan association to which you pay dues, comes up here from time to time. Generally, a clan association is a club for those who choose to join, and in which membership is generally dependent on existing membership (again by birth or adoption) in the clan itself. You don't pay dues to belong to a clan, just the association or "club."

Ok , that makes sense then , I was wondering , So I can claim a clan by birth and not have to join the group - I have more then one I could claim but did not want to have pay dues LOL.
Thank you for the heads up

**Father Bill** · 3rd September 13, 01:17 PM

I expect that others may have other perspectives, but I think I'm close to being clear on this one!

**ThistleDown** · 3rd September 13, 01:43 PM

You are, Father Bill. Membership in a clan is yours by birth or, as in the case cited by Johnny Selkie, through 'adoption' by the chief. Think of the clan as your own family, those who have married into your family, and those who have been adopted by your family's patriarch or chief. Some members of your family may also belong to a social club which accepts anybody who wants to join by paying its dues, or maybe only those who have your particular surname. Your family and the social club are not the same. In thinking this through also keep in mind that the clan is a patriarchy with an hereditary leader and -- usually, but not always -- the social club is a democracy with an elected head. The difference is enormous and understanding that is essential to understanding the significance of the OP's question.

**Johnny Selkie** · 8th September 13, 09:40 AM

The thing in my case is that its been easier for me to get a hold of the clan chief in person (Malcolm Sinclair which was a great experience by the way) than those who are running the UK branch of the Clan Sinclair society website.
I do consider myself a clansman, but I can't help feeling that it might make more sense to the man in the street (at least here in Norway) if I also became a member of the clan society. What do you think I should do?

**Johnny Selkie** · 8th September 13, 09:46 AM

*Double post*

**StevieR** · 8th September 13, 10:59 AM

Thistledown has summed things up very well.

Do not feel obliged to join the society, although no doubt you'll find it a good place for like minded people with shared interests. I would be very happy with the clan chief's acceptance. That, after all, trumps everything!

**Deil the Yin** · 8th September 13, 08:04 PM

I think this (quote below) poses a very interesting perspective, and one that I am in a mind of to beg to differ with ThistleDown and Father Bill somewhat. While I'm sure these twa braw heelan gentleman have given the letter of the law, so to speak, I would say that this is not the be-all-end-all given the current situation of Scotland's clan system (in my own humble opinion and experience, of course, qv). By this I mean to say that, particularly from my experience in the Clan Gregor Society, the Scottish Clan Societies, by and large, are what I would deem to be the equivalent of a modern clan system (the original having been dismantled after the '45). Thereby if you wished to be a member of your "living" clan with practical opportunities to support and further its heritage and general preservation in addition to fellowship, joining a clan society could well be a particularly fulfilling lifetime endeavor, with the one caveat you'll likely get out of it only what you put into it. This is not to say that personal acceptance by your Chief is anything to sneeze at- hardly! More likely a moment you will personally cherish and never forget. But after the moment is over, for most of us it is quite possibly the last time we ever personally meet our chief for all practical intents and purposes. So to say you are a member of the clan by virtue of the chief's personal acceptance is essentially nominal outside of sentimental value. Or at least that is all it is likely to be for the vast majority of clan "members." And this may very well be all some hope or wish for out of their clan/heritage. To each their own, and I will most certainly not endeavour to rob them of their joy.

I will admit that this viewpoint is certainly subjective, as it is more the spirit of the "law" than the letter, so to speak (again). But it's the way I see it: reality versus "on paper". Have sort of lost track of where else I was going with this, so am going to "drop back and punt" as they say (in America anyway)...

ADDENDUM: I can't speak for all clan societies of course, but with regard to Clan Gregor (and it's my impression it is likewise with many clan societies), the Chief is our patron (of the Society) and of a very similar mind to the Sinclair, if I'm not mistaken. So in a sense it is a package deal as far as being a member of the Society AND the "clan."

Hope this wasn't too off topic. I think the OP is very poignant (in a positive way for me at least)...

Originally Posted by Johnny Selkie

The thing in my case is that its been easier for me to get a hold of the clan chief in person (Malcolm Sinclair which was a great experience by the way) than those who are running the UK branch of the Clan Sinclair society website.
I do consider myself a clansman, but I can't help feeling that it might make more sense to the man in the street (at least here in Norway) if I also became a member of the clan society. What do you think I should do?