Need some help... Highland dancing

[RockyR]

What has the date of the tartan registration got to do with the legitimacy of a dance tartan? I don't understand the tendency here to downgrade dance tartans. They're neither more or less a tartan as any one that you've currently designed in the last 10 years. At least dance tartans must be based on existing clan, family or district tartans as specified by the SOBHD which puts them in the same range as Hunting, Ancient or Weathered lines of the same tartans. And, makes them more legit than a fantasy tartan such as the R'leyh tartan.

Not sure why you think I'm "downgrading" the dance tartans and I'm not trying to pick or enter into an argument. Nowhere did I "downgrade" them. I simply stated that they were created and registered more recently specifically for highland dancers, not as an official approved tartan (necessarily) by the clan chief. In that last sentence, I am making an assumption as I don't believe many clan chiefs have taken a new dancers tartan and officially adopted it as the "dress" tartan for the clan, but I may be wrong and would happily admit so if I am shown examples of a clan chief doing so (i.e. the dance tartan was created and marketed to dancers first, then at a later date, the clan chief approved it).

The dance tartans have "just as much right to exist" and just as much legitimacy as any of the dozens of tartans I've created and registered or the R'Lyeh tartan that Artificer created (I believe it was Scott who designed it). The mill or tartan designer (in the case where it wasn't a mill that designed it) saw a need in the marketplace for new designs and had them registered and sells them. Nothing wrong with that. That's capitalism.

I'm not sure why you have such disdain towards me, but having explained my comments, I will gracefully be bowing out of this discussion.

[Barb T]

I think no one intended offense here, so maybe we can just let it go? There's really good information in this thread, and it would be a shame to have it relegated to the cooling off corner.

[Barb T]

I think some of the confusion comes from how these dancer's tartans are listed in the Register. Here, for example, is the listing for the Dress Purple Cunningham, a very common tartan among dancers and woven by DC Dalgliesh.



Although the tartan name is "Cunningham", the Register lists it as a fashion tartan (see the screen shot below for the full list of categories):

[Dixiecat]

Not sure why you think I'm "downgrading" the dance tartans and I'm not trying to pick or enter into an argument. Nowhere did I "downgrade" them. I simply stated that they were created and registered more recently specifically for highland dancers, not as an official approved tartan (necessarily) by the clan chief. In that last sentence, I am making an assumption as I don't believe many clan chiefs have taken a new dancers tartan and officially adopted it as the "dress" tartan for the clan, but I may be wrong and would happily admit so if I am shown examples of a clan chief doing so (i.e. the dance tartan was created and marketed to dancers first, then at a later date, the clan chief approved it).

The dance tartans have "just as much right to exist" and just as much legitimacy as any of the dozens of tartans I've created and registered or the R'Lyeh tartan that Artificer created (I believe it was Scott who designed it). The mill or tartan designer (in the case where it wasn't a mill that designed it) saw a need in the marketplace for new designs and had them registered and sells them. Nothing wrong with that. That's capitalism.

I'm not sure why you have such disdain towards me, but having explained my comments, I will gracefully be bowing out of this discussion.

Rocky, I'm at a loss to understand why you've taken this as a personal attack. I've taken many opportunities in the past to defend dress tartans here on this forum. When people make comments that dress tartans are not REAL REGISTERED (your emphasis) and then when proven wrong, make back-handed comments about how recent they have been registered, I tend to get defensive - no matter who says it. A search of my posts will verify my stance on this subject.

There have been examples of clan chiefs who have officially adopted a dress/dance tartan as an official clan 'dance/dress' tartan. One was in fact announced here on Xmarks. The name escapes me at the moment, but again, a search of my posts will find that thread. I'm sure if you would like to research each and every dance tartan you might find several more, but it really doesn't matter to the dance world whether they've been 'officially' claimed or not. On the other hand, I'm sure not every Hunting, Ancient or Weathered clan tartan has been 'officially' claimed either. I don't care. If you like a tartan, go for it.

As for capitalism, you're quite right - the Sobieski brothers and the Vestiarium Scoticum proved that long before any mill designed dance tartan came into existence. ;)

[Barb T]

Can we please chill about this and stick to sharing information and clarifying inaccuracies without accusation? As I said previously, there is good information in this thread, and it would be a real shame to have this sent to the cooling off corner.

[SemperFyffe]

Yes, I agree. I would like to thank ALL for the most helpful advice, especially Barb T and Bonnie Heather for addressing some of my main concerns. After reading the posts I feel that perhaps I may not have given enough information in my first post. My four children are beginners yes, but are not very young. They are 16, 13, 12, and 10. Due to their age and size, I don't think a kiltie would suit any of them, so we are stuck with supplying kilts for all. Our dilemma is that none of them really like any of the traditional dance tartans. I don't want to open up another can of worms here, just stating our preference. If we have to invest in a kilt, I want it to be something that they will want to wear even when not dancing. Their instructor recommended the Edinburgh Dress Tartan which everyone seems to like as it is not quite as dramatic in contrast as most dress/dance tartans but still provides good contrast in colors for some flash.

As to the pleat, logically it seems to me that the military box pleat would be the first choice with the amount of flash and swish that it provides. WHY is it not well suited for highland dance? I KNOW that traditionally highland dancers have kilts in traditional dancers tartan pleated to the sett and a knife pleat, but I don't understand why. Is there a limitation or is it just simply because that is what everyone does? Please understand I am new to this and just seeking knowledge, not controversy. Thanks again.

[Barb T]

To be honest, I don't think a military box would be very practical for a dancer's kilt (way too much trouble to press!), and a properly made knife-pleated kilt swings just fine. And, in fact, I suspect (although I haven't actually tried this) that the stiffness of the extra creases in the military box would inhibit the flashy swing that Highland dancers get with their knife-pleated kilts.



No reason at all not to pick whatever tartan you want and to pleat it either to the sett or stripe. Although most Highland dancers have kilts pleated to the sett, there's no rule against pleating to the stripe. Our daughter competed for many years (very successfully) in an Antarctica kilt pleated to the stripe, and her best friend competed in the Arctic tartan, pleated to the stripe:



has great flash

[SemperFyffe]

THANK-YOU Barb! That makes sense to me. Yes, there is a good deal of beautiful flash to those kilts. I am leaning towards pleating to the stripe for that reason. I really appreciate your opinion both as a kilt maker and mother of a dancer. BTW, I just got your book this weekend. Unfortunately the whole family was down with the flu so I have yet been able to do more than flip through and look at the pictures. I can't wait to get started though.