Charles Edward Stuart's Targe

[creagdhubh]

Super! Thank you Kyle, I was hoping you'd weigh in on this.

Yet another case of "George Washington Slept Here". Although I DID hear that he made a few stops out around British Columbia, Steve- so I think your sign is fine

I wonder what happened to the other 11...

and if Bonnie Prince Charlie really did carry one at Culloden?

As an aside, can you imagine carting around 13 of these things while at war? They must have been stacked up like pizza boxes

ith:

Exactly! I've often wondered that too. Perhaps some of the targes are collecting dust in the attic of some grand house somewhere in the Highlands as we speak! Who knows?!

[Father Bill]

Fascinating. The documentation is what makes the thing fabulous.

[artificer]

Exactly! I've often wondered that too. Perhaps some of the targes are collecting dust in the attic of some grand house somewhere in the Highlands as we speak! Who knows?!

Wouldn't that be an AMAZING find to see pop up on Antiques Roadshow!!

BTW: Steve I meant to offer my apologies in my last post for propagating incorrect information,
you were correct after all.

Now you'll all excuse me while I wander off muttering quiet obscenities to myself about incorrect 'historical' information.

ith:

edit: typos

[Downunder Kilt]

Whatever the provenance, still a magnificent looking targe and can hang in my loungeroom anytime. Thanks for putting up the photo Scott.

[TheOfficialBren]

Whatever the provenance, still a magnificent looking targe and can hang in my loungeroom anytime. Thanks for putting up the photo Scott.

...and I will be happy to loan it tonyou any time, Mike. Lol.

Thanks, Atrificer. Great theead. Thanks, Kyle. I dig the hostory lesson here.

Ot would be a shame if some of his other targes ended up on the black market but, unfortunately, these things happen more often than most people realise. Private collectors actully seem to do more harm than good on many occasions. I had an archaeology professor a whole back that kind of instilled that opinion, though.

[jhockin]

From the web page on the National Museums of Scotland:
"Targe, owned by Prince Charles Edward Stewart

A targe is a circular Highland battle shield made of wood and covered with leather. This example was presented to Prince Charles Edward Stewart in 1740 by James, 3rd Duke of Perth.

The targe is made in the traditional highland way, with overlapping wooden boards covered in pigskin. It is, however, much more elaborately decorated than most Highland targes and its silver mounts were probably added in London in 1740.

The targe was rescued from Culloden battlefield in 1746 by Jacobite colonel Ewan MacPherson of Cluny and remained in his family until the 20th century."

[artificer]

From the web page on the National Museums of Scotland:
"Targe, owned by Prince Charles Edward Stewart

A targe is a circular Highland battle shield made of wood and covered with leather. This example was presented to Prince Charles Edward Stewart in 1740 by James, 3rd Duke of Perth.

The targe is made in the traditional highland way, with overlapping wooden boards covered in pigskin. It is, however, much more elaborately decorated than most Highland targes and its silver mounts were probably added in London in 1740.

The targe was rescued from Culloden battlefield in 1746 by Jacobite colonel Ewan MacPherson of Cluny and remained in his family until the 20th century."

Which would follow along similar lines to the information laid out in "The Highlanders of Scotland", although the "Highlanders" notes claim that Charles gave it to MacPherson after Culloden and not that it was recovered from Culloden field.

In this case I'd probably believe the Cluny/MacPherson historian as the family was closer to events,
it would also make sense with the info about another identical piece that had been destroyed in the fire at Warwick Castle. (why would there be a 2nd identical one if this were Charles' personal targe?)

Also, the skeptic in me is more inclined to believe a story that says something WASN'T a famous person's SPECIFIC piece, but might have been one of several given out in recognition of loyalty/service.

ith:

[kiltedrennie]

A reproduction of this would look awesome on my wall. Thanks for the interesting photographs and discussion!

[Geoff Withnell]

It would not be a bit surprising for Charles to have multiple targes along for a battle. Unlike swords, targes and other types of shields typically do not survive very long in a battle. It is quite possible to run through several in the course of an afternoon. Which gives more credence to the silver being added later.

Which would follow along similar lines to the information laid out in "The Highlanders of Scotland", although the "Highlanders" notes claim that Charles gave it to MacPherson after Culloden and not that it was recovered from Culloden field.

In this case I'd probably believe the Cluny/MacPherson historian as the family was closer to events,
it would also make sense with the info about another identical piece that had been destroyed in the fire at Warwick Castle. (why would there be a 2nd identical one if this were Charles' personal targe?)

Also, the skeptic in me is more inclined to believe a story that says something WASN'T a famous person's SPECIFIC piece, but might have been one of several given out in recognition of loyalty/service.

ith:

[TheOfficialBren]

It would not be a bit surprising for Charles to have multiple targes along for a battle. Unlike swords, targes and other types of shields typically do not survive very long in a battle. It is quite possible to run through several in the course of an afternoon. Which gives more credence to the silver being added later.

Geoff brings up a very valid point.

From an archaeological perspective when recovering artifacts of a martial nature even swords are often badly corroded and disintigrated. I honestly cannot think of a genuinely Medieval shield (for example) surviving long enough to make it into a museum because a) its function & b) its composition (usually wood and leather with some small metal bits). The closest thing that I can think of might be some Tudor era tilting (jousting) shields (or, more likely, Victorian era reproductions) but those were never instruments of war. They were always sporting equipment so they faired a bit better than anything that saw action on the battlefield.

This piece may be genuine but, to be completely objective, might it be another Victorian-era reproduction? Those Victorians were impossibly romantic and never let the truth get in the way of a good story.