What are we allowed to post in this section?

[Tobus]

For someone who has been following the thread, wouldn't any new posts show up in New Posts, and from there it would be obvious that the thread has been moved? The reader who wants to follow the thread would then know to look there.

I'm assuming you're talking about the "what's new" tab. I don't use it. It makes me wade through a bunch of topics that I don't care about, which is precisely why I like to browse directly to the subforum that interests me in order to find topics I do care about. And for this reason, I am very grateful for the staff attempting to keep topics fairly well organised in the sub-forums to which they should belong. The only issue here is that there is some confusion on what exactly the traditional forum is supposed to be about, if topics about traditional kilt wear keep getting moved to other subforums.

To be fair, they usually do leave a marker to show that a thread has been moved, and it's easy to click on that link to follow it to the thread's new location.

[Terry1948]

I'm going to have to disagree with this. People can explore whichever sub-forum they like, but each sub-forum serves a particular purpose.

The Traditional subforum exists for those who wish to discuss the finer points of how the kilt is worn in a traditional sense. (Following the 'Rules' as it were).
Some contemporary dressers find the discussion excruciating and knit-picking.

The Contemporary subforum exists for those who may wish to wear the kilt in a more 'modern' sense. Alternate jacket styles, scrunched down hose, unusual sporrans, etc.
Traditional dressers may find some of this... troubling .

To strip the traditional forum of everything BUT the kilt itself essentially destroys the subforum, as a kilt worn traditionally frequently DOES have a jacket (or jumper). Why take the discussion of
traditional jackets worn WITH traditional kilts OUT of the Traditional Sub-forum?

Just my $0.02, but I find the recent 'pruning' of the traditional forum has sucked much of the life and discussion out of XMarks, at least the parts I quite enjoyed.

ith:

So, I admit to being a bit bemused. Why does it "suck the life and discussion out" by having to read about something in a subforum not dedicated to one specific perspective? I actually find going into different subforums adds to the life and discussion, but then I am also interested in seeing how different people view the wearing of the kilt.

[artificer]

So, I admit to being a bit bemused. Why does it "suck the life and discussion out" by having to read about something in a subforum not dedicated to one specific perspective? I actually find going into different subforums adds to the life and discussion, but then I am also interested in seeing how different people view the wearing of the kilt.

It's not just about WHERE the conversation is read, although this pruning HAS vastly cut down the volume of threads as well as the traffic IN threads that I am interested in- "sucked the life and discussion out". Literally.
The traffic in the Traditional forum is at an all time low.

To be perfectly frank, if I want to discuss how a tweed jacket works with a particular outfit I don't need to hear "Wear what you want, there are no rules" eighteen times in a thread (a fairly Contemporary PoV).
I'd much rather hear from those who share a particular mindset, as those would be the opinions that I was looking for (Traditional ones).

Likewise, If I was discussing the finer points of rough and ready boots and hose for a concert I wouldn't be asking the question in the Traditional forum (where such a question might mostly net answers of "I'd never do that").

THAT is why I appreciate the ability to discuss various facets of kilting in their proper sub-forums. It's not about NOT getting different perspectives,
it's about asking the proper question in the proper place to get the proper answer from the proper people.

A jumble of opinions is what the "General" forums are for, and they do marvelously at it, but certain questions and topics belong in DEDICATED spaces.

ith:

Edit: I should add that I am not an "Arch-Traditionalist", the weather here means that most of the time I'm wearing a Polo shirt and light or scrunched down hose with my kilt, and I've been known to wear a t-shirt with it as well.
I just appreciate being able to access set groups with their own particular points of view.

[Tobus]

To be perfectly frank, if I want to discuss how a tweed jacket works with a particular outfit I don't need to hear "Wear what you want, there are no rules" eighteen times in a thread (a fairly Contemporary PoV).
I'd much rather hear from those who share a particular mindset, as those would be the opinions that I was looking for (Traditional ones).

Likewise, If I was discussing the finer points of rough and ready boots and hose for a concert I wouldn't be asking the question in the Traditional forum (where such a question might mostly net answers of "I'd never do that").

This. Exactly.

Posting a question about a tweed jacket is a great example. If one were to post it in the traditional subforum, he would be looking for input based on a traditional point of view. If he posted it in the accessories subforum, he would be looking for a more general opinion. Two very different intents, with the exact same question asked. The issue of where the question is asked is the important thing. But if all such questions are moved to the accessories forum, it defeats the poster's intent.

[pbutts]

Nathan, are you asking for clarification on WHY posts are moved or are you advocating that the original poster's choice of forum be respected?

In the examples cited, is the move to another section the result of subsequent comments that hijack the original intent?

Personally I automatically hit the "NEW POSTS" button and skim through posts irrespective of forum to see what interests me. I only use the forum view when I'm shopping a particular vendor or looking for DIY help.

It might be helpful to do a survey on --

1) how many members go directly to the "Traditionally Made" forum?

2) how many members browse by "New Posts"?

Also, do a review the posts that were moved to see what topics appear to be problematic.

...this might give the moderators some data to ensure that whatever solution is considered actually meets the needs of members.

[Nathan]

Nathan, are you asking for clarification on WHY posts are moved or are you advocating that the original poster's choice of forum be respected?

In the examples cited, is the move to another section the result of subsequent comments that hijack the original intent?

Personally I automatically hit the "NEW POSTS" button and skim through posts irrespective of forum to see what interests me. I only use the forum view when I'm shopping a particular vendor or looking for DIY help.

It might be helpful to do a survey on --

1) how many members go directly to the "Traditionally Made" forum?

2) how many members browse by "New Posts"?

Also, do a review the posts that were moved to see what topics appear to be problematic.

...this might give the moderators some data to ensure that whatever solution is considered actually meets the needs of members.

Interesting questions but really don't address my OP. Obviously there are subforums so different people can discuss what they want among likeminded people.

What IS ok for this sub-forum? What DOES actually belong here in terms of new content? What determines whether you are wearing the kilt traditionally if not the things you wear it with?

[MacLowlife]

My jaundiced view is that those who decide have no interest in Traditional kilt wearing and, either by design or by mistake, they are killing the Traditional forum by moving posts which refer to anything other than traditional kilts- for example, my own moved thread on tartan jackets, which I posted here a few weeks ago. And yes, I know a jacket is not a kilt, but I agree with the posts above which noted that this forum draws traditional kilt wearers and traditional views, regardless of whether we ask " So, about those socks I wear with my traditional kilt..." or say "Should I wear my traditional kilt with these socks?" Of late, merely saying "Traditional Kilt" has not been enough- you have to refrain from mentioning anything else, too. I know that much thought has been expended on the forum titles, but I think the moving of threads is frustrating to the OP, not to mention disrespectful. When a month goes by without any posts at all, it is safe to assume that I am not the only one who feels stepped on.

My practice has been to check this forum first and occasionally to look in the General Kilt Talk forum, or maybe Advice. Sometimes I notice old friends from the THCD crowd in those other places. Lately, I just sigh and go on to other websites.

[MacGumerait]

Nathan , I would have to agree with your views and others with similar viewpoints .

The name of the sub-forum is " Traditionally Made Kilts and How to Wear Them " .

The name of the sub-forum does imply discussing and depicting not only traditionally made kilts but also what to wear with them ... thus the part of the sub-forum name " and How to Wear Them " which would suggest the traditional elements worn with the traditional kilt .

If this sub-forum wasn't intended for such discussions , perhaps there should be a new sub-forum created and appropriately named .... which would pertain to Traditional Highland Civilian Dress .

It was always nice to know in the past , that if you want to read and view threads about traditional wear you could come to this sub-forum . ( not so much now )

Don't get me wrong here folks . In case some of you are reading this in the " What's New " section , this is not a discussion of traditional vs. contemporary ( many of us traditionalists like contemporary as well ) .

This is a discussion on " WHERE " to have conversations about overall traditional wear .

Cheers , Mike

[Spartan Tartan]

My jaundiced view is that those who decide have no interest in Traditional kilt wearing and, either by design or by mistake, they are killing the Traditional forum by moving posts which refer to anything other than traditional kilts- for example, my own moved thread on tartan jackets, which I posted here a few weeks ago. And yes, I know a jacket is not a kilt, but I agree with the posts above which noted that this forum draws traditional kilt wearers and traditional views, regardless of whether we ask " So, about those socks I wear with my traditional kilt..." or say "Should I wear my traditional kilt with these socks?" Of late, merely saying "Traditional Kilt" has not been enough- you have to refrain from mentioning anything else, too. I know that much thought has been expended on the forum titles, but I think the moving of threads is frustrating to the OP, not to mention disrespectful. When a month goes by without any posts at all, it is safe to assume that I am not the only one who feels stepped on.

My practice has been to check this forum first and occasionally to look in the General Kilt Talk forum, or maybe Advice. Sometimes I notice old friends from the THCD crowd in those other places. Lately, I just sigh and go on to other websites.

I have to agree with this. I have been feeling as if the traditional sub-forum is somehow "on the outs" with the current "leadership", so to speak. As a result, it is being slowing choked out of the forum.

I come to the traditional sub-forum to have (or more accurately see) conversations about the overall wearing of kilt attire in a traditional manner. Primarily, because that is how I prefer to wear my own. Additionally, when I seek a new opinion, I decidedly go into the sub-forum(s) which provide differing thoughts. However, when I want to discuss something with like minded people, I do NOT wear my traditional outfit into a biker bar and expect to have an extended discussion about proper shoes and or hose to wear at a particular event. But if I DO desire that conversation, I too would like to avoid the "wear whatever you want, there are no rules" commentary that serves no purpose to aid the conversation that I seek.

[Steve Ashton]

I have been watching this thread and have held off responding until a few more of you have had a chance to comment. I am also reading all the comments from the Moderators.

What I think has been missed here is that the Style Forum and its three sub-forums are not fashion forums. There are currently no forum sections on X Marks that deal with different fashions, How you wear your kilt or what you wear with it should not be specific to one forum section.

In fact, having separate forum sub-sections based on fashion would be directly against part of our mission statement.
“This is a Kilt Forum. Our members come here to learn about, discuss and share a love for the kilt. This is not a Scottish specific forum nor is it a highland wear specific forum, just as it is not a modern wear specific forum. We keep our focus on the kilt. It is what brings us here and what makes this forum unique in the world.”

The word “Style” as used in the Style Forum means that the historical kilt is a distinctly different style of kilt from the traditional style kilt and both are different from a contemporary style kilt.
For example – I do not post in the traditional style kilt sub-section because I do not wear traditional Style kilts. Some have commented that I dress very traditionally but I have disagreed based on the definition of these forum subsections
Posting about a jacket in the Style Forum is therefore incorrect as the Style Forum Section is currently defined. As currently defined a jacket would be an accessory to a kilt so is most appropriately posted to the Accessories Section.
This is also why the definition of THCD was placed in the Member Written Articles and not in the Style Forum Section.

But I can understand where the confusion comes from. I have never felt that the three style sub-forums were the best way of doing things. The format only seems to foment a traditional vs historical vs contemporary feeling.

However, within the last few comments posted to this thread a couple of suggestion have been presented which may have given us the solution.
OC Richard posted - What I tend to post here are 1) things regarding vintage kilt photos and 2) things regarding Highland military garb, there being no "Highland military dress" forum (I sometimes wish there were).

First I need to explain something. I am not anti-traditional. It is simply that I do not like the way the acronym THCD is used here.
This acronym was invented by just a few members here. It is used only here, and by just a few members. It is not known or used anywhere else. No one outside this forum would know what it is supposed to mean.
And I would bet that no one outside of this forum would use it or agree with how it is used here.

And frankly I am getting just a little tired of the traditional vs modern tension that is caused by the way THCD is used. Lately X Marks has become known as a traditionalist stronghold. All of the other kilt forums have had comments to this effect that if you want to discuss modern kilt wear you should do so on another forum.


We all wear a kilt for different reasons. Some of us wear a kilt one way and some another. But we all do wear a kilt. This should unify us.
The only difference is the reason we wear a kilt. And this is where you, yourselves may have presented the solution.

I would be agreeable to changing the Style Forum Section based on the reason we wear a kilt not on how we choose to wear it or what we choose to wear with it.

Some of us wear a kilt as part of a uniform. Be it the military, or a pipeband. Uniforms are, by definition, uniform but each has distinctive differences. For example - some pipeband uniforms could be described as being based on tradition and some are very modern in their approach.

Some of us wear a kilt to make a non-conformist statement. Many Utilikilt wearers would agree with this. The entire publicity campaign of the Utilikilt Company is “Revolt against trouser tyranny”.

Some of us wear a kilt as daily street wear. Some may take a more traditional approach and some a more modern approach. Those who consider themselves traditionalists may post here on equal footing with those who consider themselves more modern.

I have created and just turned on one suggestion of how the Style Forum Section could be re-worked.
You can only see this suggestion. You can’t post to these sections.

Please notice that there is no THCD specific forum. And I strongly believe that creating one would drive more of a wedge between our members. If you prefer to dress traditionally you may post in any forum sub-section you feel like. This may actually open up the discussions more than they currently are.

Please remember that these forum sub-sections are merely a suggestion. My goal is to find some way of ending the conflict and finding a way that is based on the well-being of the entire forum and all its members. Please feel free to comment.