too quick to criticize

[woodysjames]

I have to agree that this is one of the most polite forums I've ever seen, or managed. For the one about the traditional kilt, I saw nothing in the thread that would have offended anyone. In fact, the OP's post and reply was more "offensive" than others. It wasn't offensive, but was a bit more critical of how a kilt suit appeared than anything others said.

As for the one about how the OP was wearing a kilt in a picture, I missed that one. I'd like to see the photo, just so I know not to wear it that way.

In forums I've managed, you'll eventually get a couple of people that are offended over the smallest thing. It's good to make members aware of not their words, but their presentation. Here in the South, you'll hear little old ladies say "Well, bless your heart." It sounds sweet, but it's their polite way of saying "you're an idiot."

[Father Bill]

Gotta love little old ladies; they're often pretty much to the point!

[auld argonian]

All right, I'll bite.

I was in on the "kilt backwards" thread. If I recall correctly without going back and looking at it, my comments were more of the, "gee, you'd think the guy would know better given his background" type than the, "let's all have a laugh at this clown's expense" type. I HAVE had to GENTLY inform a guy that he had it on backwards and he really didn't know and he was embarrassed and I did say, "it's okay…you're cool…easy mistake to make"…I didn't jump all over him, I just told him that it was wrong and it was no big thing…which it really isn't.

I don't think that I've ever seen anybody in this forum really, cruelly dump on someone who had made a kilt faux pas. Couple of chiding remarks, maybe, but nothing vicious. Most of the time it's like the gentleman who has been the beneficiary of the "kilt backwards" thread…lot's of "he should know better….what's going on?" or "isn't there anybody around who will TELL him that he's got it on backwards?". On the rare occasion that someone here has gotten off-the-wall, I've seen other forum members and mods remind them of the sense of propriety that is maintained here and I have often seen the offending forum member subsequently either apologize for or, at least, explain their remarks.

Just this past Sunday I was telling my mom about the now famous Richard Branson photo wherein he was standing in full regalia AND in front of the Flying Scotsman locomotive with his kilt on backwards. Again, it's "didn't anybody tell him?", not "look at that @$$#*!€…we are all SO much cooler than he is!".

So while I take Sailortat's point and agree that none of us are so cool that we can dump on another who may make the odd boo-boo, I don't think that I've seen a lot of vicious criticism here….just criticism of the the raised eyebrow and a sad shake of the head type.

Best,

AA

[Pipersson]

Sometimes it is not easy....

Hi guys,

following the current discussion I am a bit astonished.
What is this forum for?
Isn't it to share the joy and information about kiltwearing? And help and attract people who are newly interested in kilts?
Sometimes I get the impression we are living in the Holy Grail of kilts and don't want anyone to enter this splendid isolation.
For me "silly" questions especially by a newbie is part of the game...losing a new member by giving the impression he and his question might be to silly to be treated seriously is a confession of failure and a disaster!
I have read a lot of "silly" questions and comments the last years and most of the time they have been answered very kindly.
But sometimes there are unfriendly and unhelpfull comments escpecially by people who might consider themselves being very polite.
I made this experience myself and it wasn't really funny...so there might be
space to improve!
Might be that this is also a reason why I don't see some members anymore who have been great and cheerful sources in the past...

A picture where the guy - might - wear the kilt in the wrong way seems tragic and maybe ridiculous but do we really need a discussion about this for our self assureence that we do it the right way? I don't think so....

I personally think the atmosphere in the forum changed during the last month and it is less fun to be here...



Tom

[Kiltedjohn]

I have pondered long and deep how best to respond to this thread.

I think everyone would agree that we should not make comments/criticisms which are offensive.

At the same time, I have read various threads in which "incorrect" ways of kilt-wearing have been criticised, including some which relate to published photographs. I have found some of these comments to be genuinely helpful and informative, and I hope this will continue. (E.g. wearing of belts with waistcoats; gaps between kilt and waistcoat.)

Yes, we can be too quick to criticise, but I feel we should not shy away from making critical comments where appropriate. It may help others avoid falling into the same errors.

[BadenochWolf]

I guess I'll wade in. I can't say much for the first instance given. I generally stay out of the "contemporary wear" part of the site because that's not my style of dress. I'm not knocking any of those seeking to push the kilt in a modern direction. Fashion is a spectrum, and I tend to stay well away from any edge, lest I cut myself. I'm willing to bet that, given enough time, the best bits of Contemporary Wear will bubble up and be taken up by more traditional souls, thus moving the kilt as a mode of dress forward into a new time, rather than consigning it as an article of history altogether. I'm happy with this arrangement, and hope the more fashionably-minded among the rabble won't mind if I pick up a style they created when it becomes a little more broken in.

As to the gentleman with the stern-to-fore kilt, I could have let the outfit go, had it not been for the mix of military and civilian apparel. I am a medically discharged (still fighting for retirement) noncommissioned officer of the U.S. Army. For fourteen years, my life was about making on-the-spot corrections to deficiencies in the wear and appearance of our uniforms by junior enlisted (and occasionally junior officers). In that culture, the exacting detail with which one wears an outfit directly correlates to one's perceived fitness for duty. A slovenly uniform is the hallmark of a malingerer, a leech, and those trying to get by doing the bare minimum while others are literally dying to push our effort forward. I tried my best to keep my comments in that thread germain to my areas of (limited) knowledge, and kept my comments focused almost entirely on the "uniform" aspect of his outfit. I tried to educate and inform how these rules work, and a smattering of why, without being condescending.

However, it seems to me like there are at least a few people in that thread attempting to wind up traditionalists with verbal bombshells. I responded to one with less charity than I probably ought to have. It seemed to me that this person was purposefully ignoring any discussion of the uniform nature of the gent's outfit to keep banging the "let your freak flag fly" drum. Since this IS a place where new kilties come for advice (oftentimes long after the original discussion has ended), and since others might find the thread and think "Hey, I have mess dress and a kilt, I can wear this like he did," I cited the regulation in a fairly heavy handed manner. This was done NOT to hit at the members espousing the "wear what makes you feel good" attitude, because, frankly, even though our expressions are different, I do exactly that when it comes to dressing.

Nonetheless, I felt it vitally important to let some future junior LT --who just got his first mess dress and is perhaps considering the kilt for a formal function-- know that this manner of dress is not according to regs, and should be avoided lest he find himself having to explain his actions to an irate commander. If the manner in which I did that stifled discussion of other points, I apologize. It seems to me, though, that once you point out the wrong-way-round kilt, there isn't much left to say.

I have not responded to the latest verbal fusillade over there, because it's become apparent that certain people just do not wish to see differing points of view. It's not the first time I've run across such "tolerant" intolerance from those who welcome anything except the traditional viewpoint. I thought it best to leave the thread entirely, rather than dither with someone who is being purposefully argumentative on a topic where their opinions so vastly outweigh their information.

[AFS1970]

Almost all of what I was going to say here has already been said, much of it by Jock.

I think the two threads mentioned are entirely different. I don't get the kilt suit concept, but then again I am not a fan of modern kilts either. That being said, here at XMTS I do not set out to bash them as I know there are a great many members who disagree with me on kilt wearing. I too got the feeling that the ex-member was looking for folks to join him in bashing the kilt suits.

As for the backwards kilt, as has been said, people come here looking for advice and if we do not note what is incorrect then we run the risk of someone doing the wrong thing based on what they see here. If the person is wearing something wrong because some beloved relative did it that way, it is still wrong. Should we not warn them before they make a fool of themselves?

I have often said there are two standard replies that you will get to any question posed here: one will be that there are rules and rules must be followed. The other will be that there are no rules and you should be free do do whatever you want however you want. These two replies with minor varioation wil come up no matter if it is a backwards kilt, white hose, or wearing evening wear in the day time.