Another AtlantaKilts.com review

[Wareyin]

Wareyin,

Was this the newer custom wool kilt they offer? I have just fired off an email asking them some questions about that product. I may swing by next week to Chat them up too.

No, it was acrylic. I've since picked up a 13oz wool kilt from a retailer at the Highland Games (Highland Heritage?) that is much nicer. Far more pleating, and the material is less wrinkle prone.

[Leprechaun 91]

No, it was acrylic.

- Got it.

Yeah. I have one of their acrylics. I like it as a pub kilt or a fowl weather kilt but it is certainly not a formal kilt. It is what they rent with their packages though. I'm asking them about their 16oz Sheeps Wool option. I want to know a few things about this since they have a base quote of $375 on their site. I can't imagine it's a proper kilt with Hair canvas interfacing and stabilizer at that price.

I'll share my findings here though.

David

[Leprechaun 91]

Here we go...

I received an answer to the questions I asked Atlanta Kilts via email.

I asked,

1. Is there a way to know which Mill and range the tartan will be from? (Tartans can vary greatly in set size and color hue depending on Mill and range.)

2. Are these kilts made with full hair canvas interfacing and stabilizers as well as the liner?

3. Is this kilt shipped hemmed or is the a selvedge hem?

4. Is there a way to communicate wit the kilt maker directly with comments or questions if the above questions cannot be answered by you? (I intend to order through you but with a tailored garment it helps to speak with the tailor sometimes.)

Here is their Answer:

Hello David,

Our 100% wool kilts are custom made in Scotland. The fabric is from Marton Mills if it pictured on our website. Tartans that are not pictured on our website can be ordered from the Lochcarron Mills, if they produce the tartan. It is an additional $100 for tartans from the Lochcarron Mill.

I can't tell, without taking the kilt apart, exactly what kind of interfacing/stabilizer they use in the lining. If feels like hair canvas.

The wool kilts are hemmed to the selvage.

I can send the list of your questions to our vendor in Scotland and they can answer them if they have not been answered to your satisfaction.

We look forward to working with you,

Kathy

1. It "Feels" like it has a stabilizer. (Not sure what that means.)
2. It's Marton Mills or you can upcharge if your need an unlisted tartan Locharon (reasonable)
3. It is unhemmed. (Good... A hem on a 16 oz wool won't drape or swing right.)
4. They will mediate with the maker. (Probably an act to protect their sources. ... not entirely unreasonable.)

I'm still not sold. I would love to see one. At the price, I just can't imagine it being on par with my Geoffrey Taylor TANK.

Should I have them forward the questions to their maker?

[O'Callaghan]

- Got it.

Yeah. I have one of their acrylics. I like it as a pub kilt or a fowl weather kilt but it is certainly not a formal kilt. It is what they rent with their packages though. I'm asking them about their 16oz Sheeps Wool option. I want to know a few things about this since they have a base quote of $375 on their site. I can't imagine it's a proper kilt with Hair canvas interfacing and stabilizer at that price.

I'll share my findings here though.

David

Something that call's itself 'sheep's wool' probably isn't even a worsted weave, and may be the sort of loose weave often seen with acryllics. Although in fact I have acryllic kilts that are both worsted weave and loose woven. The latter are prone to 'pilling' and the former are not. Only a very few vendors in the past have offered real wool that is not worsted weave, but that may be what they are selling?

ETA: And it could explain the price

[The Wizard of BC]

Just a clarification of some terms.

Worsted is a term used about how the fibers are treated prior to spinning. In Worsting the fibers are combed and straightened till all are parallel.

Then the fibers are spun into yarn. For kilt hose you want a soft spun yarn with multiple plies. For kilts you want hard spun yarns usually of a single ply.
When the fibers are spun the width and the weight of the yarn is one of the determining factors in the weight of the finished cloth.

When we weave kilt cloth we use what is called a Twill Weave. This usually means that each warp (or side to side yarn) is woven over two and then under two Weft (or up and down) yarns.
A Twill weave gives the distinctive diagonal pattern we like in our kilt fabrics. Blue jean Denim is also a Twill Weave.

A plain woven fabric is one where the Weft yarn is woven over 1 under 1 Warp yarn. Burlap and Duck Canvas are Plain Woven fabrics.

Some of the factors you may notice that are different in high quality kilt fabrics and some of the fabrics used in the low priced kilts are -

The fibers may or may not be Worsted prior to weaving. (Most acrylic fibers are not worsted)
The yarn may be spun loosely. This is what we see on many kilts labeled "Heavy Weight". Loose spun yarns result in a thicker, more 'fluffy' fabric that may feel heavier to the inexperienced. Think the difference between kilt fabric and polar fleece. The fleece is far thicker but much lighter than the kilt fabric.
The fabric may be woven looser or tighter. On average 16oz kilt fabric will have around 35-40 yarns (or what are called ends) packed into each inch. Most fabrics in the lower priced kilts have about 10 yarns per inch.

So- To recap. The way the lower priced kilts can keep the price down are.

Very low labor rates. $40.00 US Dollars a week is a good working wage. You can support a family of 4 on $40.00 per week.

1) The use of Acrylic fibers in the fabric.
2) The fibers are not worsted so you can skip that step.
3) The fibers are spun loosely
4) The spun yarn is then woven loosely.
5) There is a minimum amount construction to the product - Each kilt is made by machine stitching and made as quickly as possible. One manufacturer I know has each sewing machine operator produce a quota of 25 kilts per day.
6) There is usually only a cursory nod given to lining up the Tartan pattern when the kilt is sewn. The tapering in the Fell area is minimal. The aprons are usually not tapered so no need to deal with the apron tips.
7) There is no internal construction inside the kilt. No interfacing, no stabilizer, no Steeking line, and the pleats are not cut way. (If there is a black piece of fabric inside the kilt it is there simply because higher priced kilts have a lining so they put something in there that looks like the lining. It may or may not even be sewn down.)
8) And finally these products are made in what I will call "factories". But anyone who has every been in the middle and far east will know is that term is very loosely used. A kilt factory may be four or five members of the same family all working in a single 10x20 foot second story room above a street level retail shop.

In the one city of Sailkot, Pakistan there are an every changing number of kilt making companies. I used to keep a list of them but it was more headache than it was worth. I stopped counting the number of companies at 250. In essence all making the exact same or very similar products. Each company is trying their best to find something which will make their product appear better or different than the others. They are all competing for your same dollar.

To those who only look at the final price of the product one that retails for $20.00 will outsell one retailing for $40.00. I get emails every day from the Pakistani companies. They seem to shotgun emails to anyone in the Kilt or kilt accessory industry. They regularly offer their products at $12.00 US Dollars each.

From $12.00 wholesale to $97.00 Retail is a pretty good profit margin for those who buy these products in bulk and sell them via ebay or their own website. These places have no overhead to speak of. They do not need to make the product. They simply fill their garage or basement with shelving and wait for the orders to come in.

[Leprechaun 91]

One manufacturer I know has each sewing machine operator produce a quota of 25 kilts per day.

Where do all these go? At those numbers one would think kilts were as ubiquitous as blue jeans.

... Good notes, Steve.. Thank you.

So if you we in the position to interrogate this maker, what would your questions be?

We are being told they are being produced in Scotland. So we would expect them to not be sweatshop creations.

[Leprechaun 91]

So I got an email this morning from Kathy at Atlanta Kilts. Below is her most recent series of communications to me.

Hi David,

I just wanted to let you know that I have found out that the kilts do have a hair canvas interfacing and are scalloped away in the fell.
We just love an informed customer.

We are looking forward to meeting you,

Kathy

Hello David,

Our 100% wool kilts are custom made in Scotland. The fabric is from Marton Mills if it pictured on our website. Tartans that are not pictured on our website can be ordered from the Lochcarron Mills, if they produce the tartan. It is an additional $100 for tartans from the Lochcarron Mill.
I can't tell, without taking the kilt apart, exactly what kind of interfacing/stabilizer they use in the lining. If feels like hair canvas.
The wool kilts are hemmed to the selvage.
I can send the list of your questions to our vendor in Scotland and they can answer them if they have not been answered to your satisfaction.
We look forward to working with you,

Kathy
Hi David,

We have had several customers order wool kilts in the past few months so I have had an opportunity to get a better look at the construction of the kilts. While I still don't know about hair canvas in the sweat band lining, I do think that the pleats are scalloped away in the fell. The quality of the wool kilts for $370 is every bit as nice as the $600 kilts I have seen customers bring into the store. We do have a Wool kilt for you to look at when you get here to be measured and fitted. We look forward to meeting you. Please let us know when you are planning to visit so that I can be there to personally help you.

Thanks,

Kathy

What all this means I cannot say for sure. I am still dubious based on the price but she is working very hard for my business. I know we are not their "normal" customer since we know what we want and why. I am at least heartened that she seems to be interested in getting the answers we want. That we have to aske them.... well that is another side of the coin. I would rather the information be known already as it points to a better educated seller. I am glad though that they are willing to learn on the fly.

I'm not sure whether I will bite the bullet and be the one to try or not but I am feeling better abouth this particular item than I was when I started my inquiry.

David

[Riverkilt]

Bottom line: You can have any two of quality, service, or price.

[Mikilt]

This highlights the difference between a kilt maker and a kilt retailer

I like dealing with kilt maker because it's worth the peace of mind knowing that I can speak directly to the person making my kilt.

[Mike S]

They are trying very hard to acquire your business, but at their present knowledge level they do not DESERVE your business. Stick with those that do, many of whom are advertisers here.