when to wear a belt and when not to

[Reiver]

A good thread here....basically good general sartorial 'rules' with exception.

Great pics OC.....slim fella's there...don't see them about as much as one once did

[WillowEstate]

Hi Bruce, love the pics, I note in photo 3 we have three gentlemen, one of whom is wearing both waistcoat AND belt & buckle. i guess the premise appears to be that "tradition" says they don't go together and dare i say aesthetically it doesn't work, I personally don't think it works simply because the plate buckle gets hidden by the waistcoat. but hey, thankfully we are all different, with different views & opinions ( if we didn't we wouldn't have a forum !! btw forgive my ignorance what is a "prong" sorry for being thick :-(

The guy in the middle in picture three is wearing what I understand a prong belt to be, not sure what others might call it, "hasp" maybe? It's the pin-like thing that comes forward through the belt and rests on the leading edge of the buckle to hold it.

P.S. there are no "thick" questions here, if you need to know, just ask, someone will respond.

[carlisle401]

I think you will find that a lot of people do wear belts with kilts. The Scottish regiments did not not wear belts with waistcoats (vests). I believe this is where it started. The officer here must be Duty Officer hence, the Glengarry.

page_29_thumb_large-2.jpggordonmessdress.jpg

[tpa]

In passing, I note that most kilt hire companies seem to equip their customers with plate style buckles and show the models wearing the belt under the waistcoat. Neither is a hanging offence, but hardly traditional etiquette as per the OP's question.

I have seen that down here on shop dummies in wedding hire shops too Jock; on questioning the response is that the the outfits are sourced from Scotland and that is how they come! Their saving grace is that at least they have dressed the dummies with the pleats at the back. Presumably the outfits come with instructions.

[OC Richard]

I think you will find that a lot of people do wear belts with kilts. The Scottish regiments did not wear belts with waistcoats (vests).

Nor did Scottish civilians.

I have a large collection of vintage photos of men in Highland Dress and not a single one has a belt visible under the waistcoat. The photographic evidence suggests that this is a quite recent trend.

The most in-depth snapshot we have of Highland Dress of any period are the 56 kilted portraits in The Highlanders of Scotland, painted in the 1860s. Not a single belt is to be seen under a waistcoat. Every dirk belt seen supports a dirk, save a single one, a belt worn over the waistcoat of a jacketless man who is preparing to throw a stone. Hundreds if not thousands of photos, from the beginning of photography up till recent times, show the same.

Modern kilt hire... (at least they're wearing dirks!)



In the old days... even wearing a dirk, no belt visible under the waistcoat.





Or, the dirk supported by a dirk belt worn over the waistcoat

[carlisle401]

OC Richard, some great photos there.

I suppose I should have stated that the belt is not worn with Mess Dress. Mess dress is Black tie, the only time we wore a belt was when we were in Shirt Sleeve Order or on our jacket in No 1 and No 2 Dress.

Soldiers and Officers do not wear dirks, except for Pipers in Ceremonial Dress. A lot of ex soldiers still wear the Kilts and Trews in the Military manner as showing their respect for their Regiment.

I have seen a lot of civilians with belts, especially at weddings etc. Must be a fashion statement.

[Thekiltedmohawk]

I always feel wearing a belt along with the jacket/waistcoat, and etc makes you look like if you overdo it.

I wear belts only if I wear a dress shirt without a jacket/waistcoat.

[OC Richard]

Soldiers and Officers do not wear dirks, except for Pipers in Ceremonial Dress.

In the Scottish Highland regiments dirks used to be worn by Officers in Full Dress, which however was abolished in 1914. Yes the dirk isn't worn by Officers in the modern No1 Dress. But, one sees post-1914 Officers wearing dirks in Levee Dress, and even recently in certain orders such as Blue Patrols (where the dirk is suspended by a hidden belt under the jacket).

Yes nowadays it's only the pipers one sees normally wearing the dirk.

What's odd-looking (to me) is when I see pipers wearing dirks in otherwise very un-ceremonial kit, such as here in 1939

[carlisle401]

OC Richard, nice photo, can't make out which regiments are on parade here. I did find it strange with the nearest pipers wearing TOS's with kilts (normally boots, puttees have to be worn with kilts).
This could be a practice session for the parade where mixed dress is used, I have been mixed dress for some practice parades.

As regards the absence of the dirk. I believe it is due to the carrying of the bayonet, worn over the left hip in a bayonet frog on ceremonial dress.

[Liam]

I tend to wear a belt most of the time as I prefer sporran hangers to a sporran belt. I also don't generally wear a waist coat (vest), but if/when I do, the belt and buckle is hidden under the vest.