Pleating to set and stripe

[Jimmy Carbomb]

A quicky for you kiltmakers.
Does Pleating to stripe use more material than pleating to set.

It's a trick answer!

Pleating to sett depends on the tartan and it's "repeat".

Pleating to the stripe depends on the kiltmaker. If it's PROPERLY pleated where the stripes are "in the military tradition" and pleats are deep, then YES it takes more material. If it's pleated in the non-military style where the pattern goes across your ****, then NO it doesn't have to take more material. Not too many kiltmakers will pleat this way though, as it tends to make the "backside" look huge.

[Canuck]

Yup, some regimental kilts are box pleated to save material. Black Watch is, I believe knife pleated while others are box pleated. I believe the Gordon Highlanders and Cameron Highlanders kilts were box pleated. I don't have any URLs with pics but I do recall seeing a pic of one kilt with a matching tartan jacket where the kilt had a box pleat center back with knife pleats going toward the front on each side. I think it was a 19th century outfit.

King Aussie kilt is the name of it. I will post a link this weekend when my main computer is back from the shop. Symetrical pleats come from the front to the box pleat in the back done years before Utilikilts patented that pleating system. In fact Amish and Mennonite ladies pleat the skirt portion of their dresses in this manner too.(Have done so for years) They have an under apron and an overapron like a kilt except they add a bodice
Cheers
Robert

[RockyR]

Bubba is correct. Pleating to the SETT takes more material.

Let's say for example that you are moving over 1 "repeat" for EITHER sett or regimental pleating (stripe). Let's say that the width of your pleat is 1 inch and the repeat is 5 inches (just to pull 2 numbers out of the air)...

When you pleat to the STRIPE, you are "hiding" 4 of the 5 inches in the FOLD of the pleat. The last inch is the OUTSIDE of the pleat (the part you see).

When you pleat to the SETT, you are hiding ALL 5 INCHES of the pattern and are advancing 1 inch on the patern itself. This gives you a slightly deeper pleat (it's the 5th inch of the 5 inch repeat).

It's very confusing unless you can visualize what I typed (if it was clear enough). Many people don't get it...

If you have a tartan kilt... lay it flat. If it's to the Sett, pull one of the pleats open a bit and notice that the area DIRECTLY UNDER the edge of the pleat is the same as on top of it. If it were to the stripe, you'd have to "lose" 1 pleat width to allow the EXACT SAME PATTERN that is DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH that pleat to show.

Bottom line... It's not a HUGE difference, but it is a difference. If there was an 8 yard kilt pleated to the Sett (on a normal sized individual), it would probably be 7.25 or 7.5 yards if it were pleated to the stripe.

I hope this helps!

[Jimmy Carbomb]

As a Member of the Tartan Authority, and a contributing researcher, here's the facts:

A tartan with a small check will inevitably produce more pleats per given distance than a tartan with a large check.
The sizes of setts can vary according to the tartan cloth manufacturers who are known to have their own sett sizes for specific tartans.
The number of pleats is an important aspect with the average man requiring between 25 - 34 pleats. It should be noted that fewer would produce pleats, which will look "too wide" and any more than 34 give the appearance of the pleats being too narrow.
The depth of the pleats will vary depending upon the design of the tartan, bearing in mind that to ensure continuity of appearance all round, the tartan checks have to be matched both vertically and horizontally.

Different types of pleating allow the kiltmaker some choice in the pleating of various tartan setts. There are essentially two main styles of pleating for kilts:

SETT PLEATING
This is the term used to describe pleats which, when sewn, reproduce the sett (or design) of the tartan in the pleated area. The ease (or on the other hand, the difficulty) of producing correct pleats wholly depends upon the design of the tartan, particularly the intricacy of the various checks and overchecks. It is the experience of the kiltmaker, which is important in visualising the end result.

MILITARY PLEATING
Military pleating as the name suggests, is the style of pleating used for the production of kilts worn by Scottish Army regiments. It is said that military pleating was introduced to create a more striking effect and to introduce a very defined appearance of uniformity amongst the ranks. Also important is the fact that military pleats are very cost effective because in certain tartans more pleats per metre of fabric can be achieved than with regular tartan fabrics. Military pleats should have a prominent line or lines running the length of each pleat.

MILITARY PLEATS (alternative)
This is a variation of conventional military pleating where the prominent design feature runs the length of each alternate pleat as opposed to each individual pleat. A good example of this style of pleating is displayed in the kilts of the well known Queen Victoria Boys school of Dunblane which are made up from Hunting Stewart tartan with the pleats running in the alternating colours of red and yellow to the fore. As indicated previously, this also serves to minimise the use of fabric whilst still producing an acceptable though somewhat lighter weight garment.

[RockyR]

I almost forgot about that website... The tartan authority is prety cool!

http://www.tartansauthority.com/Web/Site/home/home.asp

Out of curiosity, what research did you contribute?

If I'm reading this right, certain tartans are used for pleating "regimentally" because of their repeats... the more repeats per meter, the more pleats you can "squeeze" into that meter...

Also important is the fact that military pleats are very cost effective because in certain tartans more pleats per metre of fabric can be achieved than with regular tartan fabrics.

My earlier point is that if you compare apples to apples... you use the EXACT SAME bolt of cloth to make 2 kilts, pleating to the sett will take slightly more material than pleating militarily. This info from Tartan Authority also backs that theory up.

[Canuck]

I don't have any URLs with pics but I do recall seeing a pic of one kilt with a matching tartan jacket where the kilt had a box pleat center back with knife pleats going toward the front on each side. I think it was a 19th century outfit.

King Aussie kilt is the name of it. I will post a link this weekend when my main computer is back from the shop. Cheers
Robert

As promised here is the link Bubba was talking about
http://www.cuillinn.com/repro.html
Cheers
Robert

[Jimmy Carbomb]

Out of curiosity, what research did you contribute?

Two research papers on two misunderstood areas, especially in North America. The first was accepted and published.

Dress Tartans: the origins, the traditional wear, and the modern myths. This is the project where the information on the confusion between "Dress" and "Formal" came from.

Second has been presented to the Authority and is being considered. UPDATED August 28... the second research project was accepted by the Authority. It is a joint project with the Court at Lyon on the matter of "Tartan Wearability in the Modern World". It's a comparison of modern attitudes versus traditional intentions. One of the great "finds" was about the Black Watch that we've discussed right here at XMarks! It also carries a section on "kilts for pride" versus "kilts for profit", which details the rise of "kilt" varieties in the world and the quality of the work. This includes the company's knowledge of tartans and construction. There's going to be a subsequent study by The Court on the legitimacy of some companies even using the work "kilt" to describe products that are not even close. (No legal recourse, just observation in terminology). In other words... putting a bucket on your head doesn't make it a Herringbone Scally.

INCIDENTALLY, make sure to ask EpiscopalScot about his research. Not only is it GREAT stuff, but he's in the same organization. The topic is NOT what you would all think of!

[Miah]

I think it would be cool to have Knife Pleats going twards the back on both sides and a Box pleat centered in the back. would be kinda a sleak look. may take some doing but i think iw would be cool and would avoid that one side flaring out while the other is lay'n back thing i have seen in some pictures.

[Jimmy Carbomb]

I think it would be cool to have Knife Pleats going twards the back on both sides and a Box pleat centered in the back. would be kinda a sleak look. may take some doing but i think iw would be cool and would avoid that one side flaring out while the other is lay'n back thing i have seen in some pictures.

I've made a few of those recently, and they're incredible! They taper easier... sit tighter... and don't poke-out like some kilts can do.

Right now, the copyright is being processed for the technique and the finished product. It's a little different (especially with the tartan) and produces a kilt that's MUCH more form fitting. When the three straps are added, the thing is so sharp that it's brutal!

[Miah]

Keep us up to speed on that I would wager that it would be dead sexy. I bet that the swing of it would be cool to.