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15th November 16, 06:35 AM
#1
 Originally Posted by Tarheel
I, have again, made a broad statement that needed clarification. This is the reason I look to the guidance of the Rabble. With my family removed for so long from the Highlands, I can only speak of the family feelings as I have grown up knowing them.
The funny thing is that the "kilt as a pan-Scottish cultural icon" movement started well after most of America's Lowland and Scotch-Irish immigrants left the UK. So, the tendancy here in the South to embrace "Scottishness" is an anachronism, at best.
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15th November 16, 07:16 AM
#2
People want to belong to a tribe, its just something hardwired in our brain.
It's what drives people, myself included, to fixate, over emphasize, pick any synonym you wish on our connection to a tribe.
With a large push by the Native Tribes of North America to take back their history, to drive out any an all who have not been living within the culture their entire lives, other tribal connections that Americans have come to the forefront. Celts of all types, not just those from Scotland are a "Safe" place where people can exercise their desire to be part of a tribe, normally without any nasty accusations of cultural appropriation.
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15th November 16, 08:35 AM
#3
Originally Posted by Luke MacGillie
People want to belong to a tribe, its just something hardwired in our brain.
It's what drives people, myself included, to fixate, over emphasize, pick any synonym you wish on our connection to a tribe.
With a large push by the Native Tribes of North America to take back their history, to drive out any an all who have not been living within the culture their entire lives, other tribal connections that Americans have come to the forefront. Celts of all types, not just those from Scotland are a "Safe" place where people can exercise their desire to be part of a tribe, normally without any nasty accusations of cultural appropriation.
Luke,
Very good points. I'm still left wondering why the tribe that I (we?) pick to be associated with is that of Highland Scotland. My hypothesis is that the kilt, tartan, and bagpipes, are just to appealing to pass up. Perhaps not unlike the trend(now reversing?) of Native American tribes throughout the US to adopt Plains Indian culture (coup bonnets, etc.) and lay aside their own. The irony is that my Lowland Scots/Borders/Scotch-Irish ancestors (my tribe) were the very folks who were fighting the Highlanders (sometimes outfitted...) in their kilts and plaids.
Yet, the first of next month I will gather with other North Carolinians, many of whom are descended only from Lowland/Borders/Scotch-Irish ancestors, for our annual St. Andrew's Day Dinner. We'll all be decked out in our kilts and (fly! ) plaids.
It does cause me to ponder if I/we haven't traded our natural "birthright" for an identity that our ancestors would be indignant over. Just musings...
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27th November 16, 12:15 PM
#4
scotch
there were scotch irish up in new hampshire where rogers rangers came from .
new yorks state
1738 Islay scots applied for a colony in argylls ny and stayed tory many were in n jersey, jane macrae shot n scalped in 1777 was a tory but her brothers were americans later settled south of ballston spa . 1774 sr wm johnson landed about 400 glengarry macdonnell's about johnstown ny and many became ..johnsons greens or butler's rangers settled in kingston ontario ..raiding nys thru war . many scots settled about cherry valley @ massacre somehow campbells. many settled about scot's bush burnt hills ny also ..middle line road town of ballston .
th
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27th November 16, 12:30 PM
#5
scotch
sorry
lists of the various militias in ny ..like 7th -10th about albany ..list many scottish names ..pro american . and fought at saratoga .
the hudson valley 1650 up albany was dutch and aftr 1710 german, schoharie german and mohawk valley largely german since abt 1710 , schenecatdy was a dutch settlement torched in 1690 .
in 1600's columbia county was bought by the livingston family who set up a tenantry like van rensselaer dutch in 2 counties . they led the 10th albany militia, they lost fortune in war and moved after to pa. border to livingston manor to renew their income . a signer of declaration of independance and married to important schulyer dutch upper class locally -note alex- hamilton and van rens- family .
note article tartan tomahawk highlander magazine abt 1980 ..sr john johnson . sr wm died 1774 abt .
an early land owner in schenectady was abraham glen who saved abt 30 captives after the schenecatdy massacre of 1690 by french and indians .
a 1774 royal map of new york shows grantees of black watch and ..murray's highlanders along lake champlain some took possession of their lands like mackenzie a sgt in port henry ny many were harrassed by the green mtn boys who tried to claim their grant lands , I have seen deeds ..some had compass bearings to the fort at crown point from the shoreline .
during saratoga 1777 david jones was a washington county tory who guided for burgoyne his fiancee jane was killed trying to see him south of ft edward. another family "allan" was massacred by marauding indian allies of burgoyne who had been lectured in willsboro by burgoyne about not harming citizens, this may have been basis for ..magua character in last of the mohicans .
about it for me . ..irishman ..caldwell mentioned in "drums along the mohawk" was a ranger leader in nys raids he si show n wearing his mohawk garb in a painting .
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27th November 16, 12:46 PM
#6
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28th November 16, 01:26 PM
#7
Originally Posted by Luke MacGillie
People want to belong to a tribe, its just something hardwired in our brain.
It's what drives people, myself included, to fixate, over emphasize, pick any synonym you wish on our connection to a tribe.
With a large push by the Native Tribes of North America to take back their history, to drive out any an all who have not been living within the culture their entire lives, other tribal connections that Americans have come to the forefront. Celts of all types, not just those from Scotland are a "Safe" place where people can exercise their desire to be part of a tribe, normally without any nasty accusations of cultural appropriation.
Lowland Scots, the Scots language ....are Germanic rather than Celtic in origin. Although there has been considerable mixing , you can not say Irish or Highland culture is Germanic.
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28th November 16, 05:34 PM
#8
My late Scots uncle (who was really a cousin, I believe) was from around Glasgow, and wore a kilt in some unidentifiable (to me at the time) weathered tartan whenever he attended highland games (annually, I suppose) and perhaps for some other special occasions. One of his sons, who is coincidentally very close to me in age, wears a kilt on a rather more frequent basis, in Black Watch tartan I believe, although to be fair I suppose you would say he now lives in the Highlands, more or less. Nonetheless, they are or were kilt wearing lowland Scots.
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28th November 16, 08:02 PM
#9
Originally Posted by TheMcManus
Lowland Scots, the Scots language ....are Germanic rather than Celtic in origin. Although there has been considerable mixing , you can not say Irish or Highland culture is Germanic.
I wasnt saying that, I was simply commenting on folks that I know that are engaging in say their Balkan Celtic heritage, the same as many of us are involved in expressing our Scottish heritage.
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23rd March 17, 08:58 AM
#10
ny scots 1777
many highlanders settled by sr wm johnson from glengarry and became ..tory soldiers : ny loyal yorkers johnsons greens, also ..butlers rangers .
islanders held title to argyll washingonfton county settled in nj and slpowly went north ..jane macrae was a tory but scalped and her brothers were american soldiers .. between ballston spa and ..ft miller .
many scots form french indian war settled or held title in champlian valley north of white hall ..philip skene was an officer adn went tory in am rev war durign saratoga as did sweetheart david jones of jane macrae ..he was later lost in history after she was killed . i saw mackenzie name settled port henry ny adn campbell name setteld crown point village area , some were drove out by ..green mtn boys of ethan allen who were "squatting" on those lands ..hampshire grants all the way to bennington vt where they held meetings .
many ulster scots went to western ny cherry valley and were in "cherry valley massacre" .
the livingston family were prominent up to the am rev and held a "fiefdom" or patroonship [like the neighbors - van rensselears] in columbia county ny then lost their money adn went to sw catskills ..they wrote in declaration of independence i think . I saw child paintings in red tartan of their family is famous .
th
many black watch served in albany and schenectady winter garrisons till sent up to fort edward . it is said they cut plaid to kilts for work and swapped swords to hatchets .
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