George VI and Edward VIII

**Grizzled Ian** · 2nd October 17, 05:02 AM

To my eye, the three sets of knees that we can see clearly, are perfectly exposed. The bottom of the kilts are at, or very nearly at, the top of the kneecaps; and the top of the hose are at a decent distance below those kneecaps. Well done, gentlemen!

Look at the turnover of the hose though. There is none of the bulk that I get with my garter ties, so it looks like the king and the guard commander are using elasticised bands for their garter tabs, while the Duke of York doesn't appear to be wearing garters/flashes at all.

**davidlpope** · 2nd October 17, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by figheadair

Oh dear no. That's the gentrified, or Morningside/Kelvinside pronunciation of 'plad' as in lad which is the correct was to say it.

These garments are known Shoulder Plaids or Laird's Plaids and can be traced back to the Highland Revival era, possibly earlier. With a kilt, they are the top and bottom of a feileadh mor separated but still intended for the origianl use as a cloak.

So Peter, just to clarify...

The correct way to pronounce the word plaid is "plad", rhymes with "lad"?

If so, millions of Americans were right, before they were told they were wrong....

**neloon** · 2nd October 17, 07:14 AM

I'm afraid that Peter is wrong !
The Scottish National Dictionary (which has to be the authority) says "played" or (in earlier times) "plyed"
PLAID, n., v. Also plaide, plade, playd-, pled-; plad; plide, plyde. Dim. plaidie, -y, plaithie (Edb. 1821 W. Liddle Poems 197).
[pled, ‡plɑed]
You can see from the variety of spellings how variations have arisen. Have just checked with my wife, who is the world authority on the Scots language, and she confirms this. At one time, the "plyed" pronunciation gave rise to the idea that the etymology was from "ply" rather than the Gaelic plaide pronounced "plaatchuh" = blanket.

Alan

**figheadair** · 2nd October 17, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by neloon

I'm afraid that Peter is wrong !
The Scottish National Dictionary (which has to be the authority) says "played" or (in earlier times) "plyed"
PLAID, n., v. Also plaide, plade, playd-, pled-; plad; plide, plyde. Dim. plaidie, -y, plaithie (Edb. 1821 W. Liddle Poems 197).
[pled, ‡plɑed]
You can see from the variety of spellings how variations have arisen. Have just checked with my wife, who is the world authority on the Scots language, and she confirms this. At one time, the "plyed" pronunciation gave rise to the idea that the etymology was from "ply" rather than the Gaelic plaide pronounced "plaatchuh" = blanket.

Alan

Must be a family thing. I was brought up calling it a plad (or plaje in Gaelic)

**fflex** · 2nd October 17, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by figheadair

Must be a family thing. I was brought up calling it a plad (or plaje in Gaelic)

Coming from Falkirk, I would say "plad". Accents in Scotland, being what they are, pronunciation can change in as little as 10 miles.

**David Dubh** · 2nd October 17, 01:12 PM

I won't say anything regarding the pronunciation of plaid. The kilt length on the knee is spot on to me, I like mine more at top of knee as at that height it doesn't rub the back of my knee when I walk
David

**Tobus** · 2nd October 17, 02:14 PM

As I recall, one of the earliest (perhaps "the" earliest) written descriptions of the plaid was written as "pladd" or "pladde". Considering the way things were often phonetically spelled (or spelt, if you will) in English back then, wouldn't it suggest that the pronunciation was "plad" that rhymes with "lad"?

At any rate, I do think the kilt lengths in the original post look exactly right. Some of us still wear our kilts to the top of the knee where it should be. Don't be fooled by kilt hire shops or people who purchase ill-fitting kilts. But also - don't be fooled by the way people take photos of kilts either. Whoever took that photo did an excellent job of getting down at ground level for perspective. Most modern people with phone cameras tend to take photos of men in kilts from way too close, looking down. With the kilt at proper top-of-knee height, and from a perspective of sitting in a chair or on the ground, it will look much higher than you might expect.

**Benning Boy** · 2nd October 17, 09:59 PM

Im digging the king's hounds tooth jacket. If i had greater call for a jacket when kilted I'd definitely want one like it. It certainly isn't something that passes for traditional highland dress nowadays. I'm really starting to develop an affinity for earlier styles.

The king and brother both have scrawny legs it appears. Bet they had no trouble finding hose that fit properly.

**neloon** · 3rd October 17, 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by Tobus

As I recall, one of the earliest (perhaps "the" earliest) written descriptions of the plaid was written as "pladd" or "pladde".

Not really - that came much later. The earliest references are

1510 "To dye 4 ells lie plaidis for my lord 2s."
1512 "In Air, for ane plaid to be the king ane coit"
1538 "An plaid of voll"
:
:
1597 "The Highlanders' predecessors vsed short mantles or playds of diuers colours but for the most part now, they use browne, most neere to the colour of the hadder to the effect, when they lye amongst the hadder, the bright colour of their playds shall not bewray them."
1630 "Their habite is ... a plead about their shoulders which is a mantle of divers colours, much finer and lighter stuffe than their hose."

Perhaps "plad" came to be an English pronunciation. By 1804, Lord Byron was writing "My cap was the bonnet, my cloak was the plaid [rime glade] . Note: this word is erroneously pronounced plad; the proper pronunciation (according to the Scotch) is shown by the orthography".

The early Scots spellings are a fair while ago and Scots wasn't/isn't pronounced the same as English.
I think we may be off-topic!

Alan