Pakistan Bits.......

[OC Richard]

Just a small correction, OC Richard, the shops you see are not Pakistani-owned but by Sikhs (Gold Bros) a quite distinct ethnic grouping although all from the Indian sub-continent.

I was speaking to the source of the merchandise, though I didn't word it well true enough. I don't know the shop owners. I had heard of the Gold Brothers but I didn't know their ethnicity.

[OC Richard]

If you don't mind my asking, Richard, what size shoe do you wear? I see several Scottish makers offering ghillie brogues with Goodyear welted construction up to size 14US (13UK). And bespoke options with high-quality construction.

Sometimes 13UK fits, but it's usually too small. I really need 14UK especially with thick kilt hose.

[OC Richard]

I once walked into one of the most well-known kilt shops on the Royal Mile..the young clerk looked me up and down, and in a very snooty tone said "Oh, I see another American came to Scotland and bought himself a kilt."

Ouch! Especially the "American" bit

If it's any consolation, when I'm in Scotland they think I'm Canadian.

It is my firm belief that every customer who walks into my shop deserves to see the staff in kilts and be greeted the moment the door ringer goes off...If you call the telephone number of the shop, it is me who will answer. If you email me, it is me that responds.

There's a lengthy, and quite interesting, interview on Pipes/Drums with Kenny McLeod, the founder and owner of McCallum Bagpipes.

He tells how some years living in the USA opened his eyes to the power of customer service, little things like how servers at restaurants treated their customers. When he returned to Scotland to start up McCallum Bagpipes he decided from the beginning that customer service was to be priority one.

Top customer service, continuous improvement and innovation of their products, and modern manufacturing techniques have made McCallum the world's biggest pipemaker (outwith Sialkot).

[ThistleDown]

Ouch! Especially the "American" bit

If it's any consolation, when I'm in Scotland they think I'm Canadian.

How very polite of them

[The Wizard of BC]

As an aside to the customer service topic, another instance took place on the same trip to Scotland.

I was in Selkirk visiting my suppliers and had just been given a tour of the Lochcarron facility. I was treated like Royalty. We were shown the entire operation and introduced to all those we had been communicating via email with so we could put faces to the names. I was given free run of the weaving mill, allowed to take as many pictures as I wanted, and even offered afternoon tea with the staff.

Then I walked down the street to one of the other weaving companies. In contrast this one was in a small, metal building with a single personnel door and no name or signage on the outside at all.
I wanted to visit with this weaver specifically because I was noticing that on their website the thread counts of the Tartans seemed to differ from those thread counts published by The Scottish Tartans Authority. (The Register had not yet started up)

When I walked in, the first thing that I noticed was that the telephones had rotary dials and cords and that there was not a computer in the entire place. I found out later that the website was managed from Edinburgh.
The customer counter was an old bar and behind the bar were old library file card cabinets.

When I posed my question about the discrepancy in thread counts I was met with a look of incredulity. The woman behind the counter first asked me what the Scottish Tartans Authority was. She then went to the card file and pulled out a hand written card. Thrusting it at me said in an offended tone "This was written by our owner in 1942. It has to be correct."

The difference in the two weaving companies was like night and day. One was modern and the staff open and welcoming. The other appeared to be holding on to an earlier age and unable or unwilling to even consider that the world had changed.

No offer was extended to see the actual weaving process at the second mill. When I asked to see, I was told that they had to get the owner as they did not normally allow customers into the mill.
I did finally get to peek for about 3 min. from a few feet through a door. The entire place was full of lint and what appeared to be random piles of fabric. The looms were old, dirty and in places fixed with bailing wire. On one loom it was evident that it had originally been manual but had been upgraded and fit with an electric motor. The motor was propped up on a wooden stool.

The only thing that I was told during my 'tour' was that they were the only 'authentic' weavers. That the people down the road were not even Scottish so could not be 'authentic'.

What I saw in person was very different from what was advertised on the website. And reinforced my original opinion from previous telephone calls trying to order fabric that I was better off dealing with someone else.

[The Wizard of BC]

The original question asked by the OP was when and how did the Pakistani phenomenon start.

While I can't give a date or a reason perhaps I can shed some light on the rest of his question about the quality difference in those products that are made in Sailkot.

Each year the many manufacturers of Scottish wear hold a pipe band competition. Now, some of the manufacturers are very small operations of just a few members of the same family, some however rare fairly large operations making bagpipes, embroidered patches, military and band uniforms and motorcycle clothing in the same factory.

If you would care to do a search on youtube under Sailkot pipe band completion you will find each years competition and the winners.

It is a real lesson in the different cultures. Scottish history and heritage are not part of Pakistan's history and heritage. The peoples of Pakistan simply do not know.

If you watch the videos you will see what appears to be people who walked through the factory picking up anything and everything that they think will look good. You will see kilts worn backwards, sideways, Kilts with tennis shoes and soccer socks, Some with sporrans and some without. Every type and style of hat imaginable. (I love the academic mortar boards with dingle balls.) Plastic Hawaiian leis, and anything and everything else.

Some bands have as many with batons as they do with pipes. Notice in the video below that the music is not Scottish tunes but traditional Pakistani rhythms and tunes. (in the 12 note scale)

I honestly do not think that they are trying to be cheap, They just come from a different culture and don't know the what a kilt is.

[OC Richard]

How very polite of them

Polite, and inexplicable, my accent being a mélange of Appalachian and Californian.

[YOJiMBO20]

I was once told/read this of, at least, the bagpipes coming out of Pakistan. I don’t know how true it is (and I may be forgetting some details), so take it with a grain of salt.

Back when Pakistan was part of the British Empire, a Scottish batallion was stationed there, including its pipers. One of the pipers had part of a drone break, and being unable to fix it himself, found a local wood turner to see if he could make a replacement. The turner said he could do it and for the piper to come back the next day.

The next day came, the piper showed up at the turner’s and found the new piece to be excellent. The piper asked for the turner to create a full set of pipes and they were good. Upon retirement from the army, the piper moved to Pakistan to set up shop selling and making pipes and piping accessories.

Over the years, however, much like in a game of telephone being played by kids, the details of how to make things got a bit mixed up. To cut costs, inferior raw materials started to be used and the quality went down.

[Tobinn]

The original question asked by the OP was when and how did the Pakistani phenomenon start.

While I can't give a date or a reason perhaps I can shed some light on the rest of his question about the quality difference in those products that are made in Sailkot.

Each year the many manufacturers of Scottish wear hold a pipe band competition. Now, some of the manufacturers are very small operations of just a few members of the same family, some however rare fairly large operations making bagpipes, embroidered patches, military and band uniforms and motorcycle clothing in the same factory.

If you would care to do a search on youtube under Sailkot pipe band completion you will find each years competition and the winners.

It is a real lesson in the different cultures. Scottish history and heritage are not part of Pakistan's history and heritage. The peoples of Pakistan simply do not know.

If you watch the videos you will see what appears to be people who walked through the factory picking up anything and everything that they think will look good. You will see kilts worn backwards, sideways, Kilts with tennis shoes and soccer socks, Some with sporrans and some without. Every type and style of hat imaginable. (I love the academic mortar boards with dingle balls.) Plastic Hawaiian leis, and anything and everything else.

Some bands have as many with batons as they do with pipes. Notice in the video below that the music is not Scottish tunes but traditional Pakistani rhythms and tunes. (in the 12 note scale)

I honestly do not think that they are trying to be cheap, They just come from a different culture and don't know the what a kilt is.

Love it! Catchy beat and I love the backwards-walking bass drummer! Seriously, they took the bits they like molded'em to their own thing and ran (march, I guess) with it.

[Baeau]

Polite, and inexplicable, my accent being a mélange of Appalachian and Californian.

Richard..................when I met you in Pleasanton, I would have assumed you were from here. No accent detected. Unless it was the skirl of the pipes that filtered it.

To all, so far that commented, thank you for the information.