Tiresome Technicalities.

[OC Richard]

People with experienced eyes don't have to think about the technicalities. They've seen thousands of men in Highland Dress and kilts and all the accessories and have the look of everything integrated into a construct or gestalt at almost a subconscious level. At a glance they can see if someone is dressed appropriately/properly.

The newcomer doesn't have that yet.

They can acquire it like some do, by spending a lifetime being around gents in traditional Highland Dress. An eye for detail whether conscious or subconscious and long exposure to properly dressed gents are all that's required.

To speed up the process the motivated newbie applies the tools used to research anything including finding as much source material as possible and asking questions and begin trying to make sense of it all.

Fashion is a visual language, and the acquisition processes are similar to spoken language. The child learns whatever language it's exposed to through constant modelling and trial and error.

The adult second language learner could do the same by moving to a place where everyone only speaks the target language and the learner is forced to use it all day every day, Total Emersion.

But in general adult second language learners desire conscious systematic learning about grammar, vocabulary, and pronunciation. Native Speakers aren't even aware of these rules, and from the not knowing often insist that such rules don't exist. However unconscious of it, their own speech follows all of them, every tiny technicality.

To list all the factors that Jock or you or me instantly process when we glance at a gent in Highland Dress would take a lot of ink! But we do it instantaneously and subconsciously.

Exhibit A:



It instantly looks wrong. But how challenging to put every single thing into words!

[Jock Scot]

.......................

To list all the factors that Jock or you or me instantly process when we glance at a gent in Highland Dress would take a lot of ink! But we do it instantaneously and subconsciously.

...........

Very good, reasonable and understandable thoughts have been voiced by many in this thread and OCR makes a very pertinent point.

However, I have no idea or interest in knowing how my 2 kilts are made. I have no idea what stitches have been used and care little, I have no idea whether they have a selvedge and I am not interested in looking and I have no idea if the waist has internal support and I have no need to find out. Why? They, the kilts, are still going faultlessly after many years, my newest kilt is probably 10 years old and the other is probably 30/40 maybe more years old. That is all I am interested in as far as build quality goes and yes of course the aesthetics are also expected be right.

Likewise I have a lifetime interest in rule 11 stuff, but I am not in the least bit interested in how they work and two of those regularly and heavily used "tools" are happily coming up to their 100th birthday, without a fault. Likewise I have a lifetimes experience of agricultural machinery and I expect them to work efficiently, but I care little in knowing how they were/are built. The same goes for cars and fishing tackle. All I care about is that they hold together until the time to replace them comes, whenever that maybe. In passing, abuse of garments and machines is not encouraged either, although it happens on occasion.

[Lady Grey]

The tiresome details and technicalities means I learn how to make a kilt to last 50 years. I’d be lost without those posts and learning here.

The current kilt I’m working on is a Crime against kilt making… the wearer commits constant Crimes against the kilt.
BUT. If I didn’t know the technicalities I couldn’t make what I am for this crazy man, a kilt that may last 2yrs if I’m lucky.
You have to know the rules to break the rules.

I find the constant discussions on socks/hose, vests & jackets rather tiresome… they’ve been answered ad nauseam.

It’s just horses for courses.

[Pleater]

There are people who suffer from delusions of adequacy - thinking that they can make something which looks like the real thing, and for which they charge quite a bit of money, but all they have done is spoilt some decent fabric.
When the thing is a kilt and after a couple of wearings the lack of proper construction begins to show, that is rather sad.
At least if the unfortunate purchaser knows how a kilt ought to be made they can make a good argument for a refund and then, being sadder but wiser, they can then seek someone who knows what they are doing to make them a proper kilt.

Anne the Pleater

[Jock Scot]

There are people who suffer from delusions of adequacy - thinking that they can make something which looks like the real thing, and for which they charge quite a bit of money, but all they have done is spoilt some decent fabric.
When the thing is a kilt and after a couple of wearings the lack of proper construction begins to show, that is rather sad.
At least if the unfortunate purchaser knows how a kilt ought to be made they can make a good argument for a refund and then, being sadder but wiser, they can then seek someone who knows what they are doing to make them a proper kilt.

Anne the Pleater

I absolutely agree.

I have had the advantage of a large family who knew about quality tailors and kilt makers etc.. They knew who to go to for getting one's attire, guns, shoes, hats, saddles, umbrellas, riding boots, rifles, watches, fishing tackle, suits, kilts and so on from and it was as simple as, "why don't you go and see So and So in Duke Street they will see you right", or Cork Street, or Suffolk Square where quality was assured and the job was done. Easy peasy.

It is not so easy advising those from outwith the UK, as I am unable to put my name to establishments out there, as I have no experience of them. Life was made so simple when I introduced myself and the eyes of the shop assistant, tailor, owner would light up and, "Ah yes!I remember your Grandfather, Father, Uncles, cousins , I haven't seen them for a while" etc., etc., etc,. As a matter of a fact I have, yesterday, just advised a nephew where he might consider going for a quality purchase.

[OC Richard]

I have no idea or interest in knowing how my 2 kilts are made. I have no idea what stitches have been used and care little...

I think whether or not you're conscious of the knowing, you do know, at a glance, a properly made kilt from an improperly made kilt.

You may not know what stitches were used, but your instincts trust that the proper kilt has everything in order.

Exhibit B:



If you could see the bottom edge of these kilts you would see that the upper one has a proper selvedge, the lower one a crude bulky hem, which makes the pleats in the back look wonky.

[Jock Scot]

OCR.

I am not sure that I would asses the quality if the kilt was being worn and I would not be rude enough to risk a close inspection. I am not keen on kilts pleated to the stripe in any civilian circumstance and belt loops on both kilts you use in your examples, lower the tone in my mind.

Close inspection with kilts like you show in your picture then I might get things somewhere near. I certainly am not keen on those embossed straps and buckles, I might not like the feel of synthetic cloth, but having never handled it I could not say. To be honest though, I am not that interested in finding out. To be clear that is not a "snobby/snooty" thing, I am just not interested. I know what I like and I am very happy for others to do their own thing. I don't need a wardrobe of kilts, two is enough for me.

[OC Richard]

I have had the advantage of a large family who knew about quality tailors and kilt makers...it was as simple as, "why don't you go and see So and So, they will see you right."

Yes indeed, knowing a trusted maker the best way to insure quality.

Here on the internet we have hundreds of newbies who don't have a trusted kiltmaker nearby. They look around the internet where they're bombarded with tat. They've not yet developed the eye, the instincts, to identify quality.

The newcomers' technical questions, and the often tedious answers, inform them.

[Jock Scot]

Yes indeed, knowing a trusted maker the best way to insure quality.

Here on the internet we have hundreds of newbies who don't have a trusted kiltmaker nearby. They look around the internet where they're bombarded with tat. They've not yet developed the eye, the instincts, to identify quality.

The newcomers' technical questions, and the often tedious answers, inform them.

Yes, it must be difficult for newbies, particularly if they are on a tight budget. All I can and do advise is, "hurry slowly".

[Pleater]

I met up with some local kilt wearers, and one had a welsh cilt which had no reinforcement - the threads were sliding out from the rows of stitches and the waistband was stretching as it had no internal support.
That was sad.

As a dressmaker to start off with and both my grandmothers made garments so I learned from them as I went along, I graduated to historical costume - 'Pleater' is not from kilts but from smocks and gowns originally, with a little Japanese costume added in for good measure.
The first pleated skirts I did were using a length of fabric made on a knitting machine using fine and very thin yarns.

Kilts are tailored, and one of the arts of tailoring is the pressing - it is all too easy to press something wrongly and distort the fabric more out of than into shape.

If I did not pick up lengths of good material when I see them at a good price, and then make things for myself I would not be able to afford to dress as I do. I also buy yarn or even whole fleeces so I have quality wool to knit with.
It used to be a skill which more people had, but as the years go by it is less and less usual.
Even tailors no longer cut out suits for made to measure, but take pre-cut pieces of around the right size and then join them up to make something about the right fit, but it is very rare to see a well made well fitted suit these days.

Back when I wore trouser suits I used to see a few swift elevations of eyebrows when someone registered the perfect fit, also when I was helped into the coat there would be a search for the maker's name plate as I folded up my hair. It certainly helped open doors when I was younger, both literally and in my career, to be able to dress well.

Anne the Pleater