1820's style tailored plaid question

[Pleater]

Ah - I was assuming that the length, that is the measurement from waist to the edge would have to be adjusted between the edges, where it falls down, to the middle where it is drawn up to the shoulder (but not quite) - but of course, kits are worn higher so the usual proportions do not apply.

The added complication of pleats at right angles is therefor not required - unless for some reason the plaid would not fall correctly without a bit of fudging.

Anne the Pleater

This garment is what I refer to as a Half Plaid. It is similar to, but not quite the same, as a Drummer's Plaid. Confusingly, at the time they were referred to as a Belted Plaid.

Here's an example of one laid out (Photo: NMS). It was worn in 1822.



They were made from a roughly 3 yard length of single-width cloth that was pleated on one of the long sides. That side was then bound with tapes that extended to form waist ties and a loop added about 2/3 along the other side. The loop fastened to a button on the coat shoulder. Finally, this particular example has a fringed end.

And this is how it looked from behind when worn.

[OC Richard]

Thanks Peter for those photos! So interesting to see the civilian version.

I knew that the military adopted what they called "belted plaids" for Full Dress around 1800 when the little kilt moved from being the soldier's undress/fatigue kilt to being their only kilt when the breacan-an-feileadh was abolished.

The military version, from period images of it being worn, was narrower, not coming round the sides to the front like the one linked to.

At least until Full Dress was abolished in 1914 officers continued to wear this "belted plaid", a complex garment which had purled fringe all around, fastened with an ornate brooch, when kilted. (When in riding breeches officers wore the long plaid which wrapped around the torso.)

This whole time (c1800 to 1914) Other Ranks wore a simpler belted plaid, not fringed, and having a loop at the top which fastened to the left-shoulder epaulette button.

[figheadair]

I knew that the military adopted what they called "belted plaids" for Full Dress around 1800 when the little kilt moved from being the soldier's undress/fatigue kilt to being their only kilt when the breacan-an-feileadh was abolished.

The military version, from period images of it being worn, was narrower, not coming round the sides to the front like the one linked to.

Richard,

This 92nd uniform from 1814 shows the paid, albeit not very well. But from the NAM photo of the individual item it appears to be about the same size as the 93rd one I previously posted. I guess that how far around it came was to some degree defined by the sword belt.

92nd Uniform - 1815_01.jpg Half Plaid worn by Lieutenant John Bramwell, 1815 (c)-1044721.jpg

[Kitfoxdave]

Thanks for all the helpful insights!
Is the pleating on the MacIntosh plaid a box pleat? The actual kilt itself is box pleated. It appears to not have any stitching of the pleats away from the ribbon / waistband area.
Are these correct observations?

Again, I thank all of you for your help understanding how this is made.

[figheadair]

Thanks for all the helpful insights!
Is the pleating on the MacIntosh plaid a box pleat? The actual kilt itself is box pleated. It appears to not have any stitching of the pleats away from the ribbon / waistband area.
Are these correct observations?

Not box-pleated a such but gathered and secured (probably stitched) on the selvedge covered by the ribbon.

[Pleater]

Thanks for all the helpful insights!
Is the pleating on the MacIntosh plaid a box pleat? The actual kilt itself is box pleated. It appears to not have any stitching of the pleats away from the ribbon / waistband area.
Are these correct observations?

Again, I thank all of you for your help understanding how this is made.

The pleating could be the folded back on itself style - it has been a long day and I can't think of the correct term - it is a hybrid of knife and box pleats.
I suspect it is what a heavy hand sewn fabric could easily deform into over time, particularly if soldiers made their own pleats without a sturdy backing to sew it onto for support and shaping.

If you plan to make one I suggest checking the length required.

People are taller these days and proportions are different - check that there is enough fabric waist to shoulder if the plaid is made to match the kilt waist to lower edge measurement.
I think that the edge is raised to a little behind the epaulette, not right up to it, but it needs to have a bit of flow to it, not be pulled taut.

Anne the Pleater

[Troglodyte]

The pleating could be the folded back on itself style - it has been a long day and I can't think of the correct term - it is a hybrid of knife and box pleats.
I suspect it is what a heavy hand sewn fabric could easily deform into over time, particularly if soldiers made their own pleats without a sturdy backing to sew it onto for support and shaping.

If you plan to make one I suggest checking the length required.

People are taller these days and proportions are different - check that there is enough fabric waist to shoulder if the plaid is made to match the kilt waist to lower edge measurement.
I think that the edge is raised to a little behind the epaulette, not right up to it, but it needs to have a bit of flow to it, not be pulled taut.

Anne the Pleater

Anne, do you mean this -

DSCF9650.jpg


It probably has a proper technical pleating term, but I usually hear it called the 'military roll' or 'military box' and it was once the characteristic of Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders' kilts. The uniform of the Royal Regiment of Scotland seems to be a mix of such elements from the antecedant regiments, and it is now a feature of current RRoS kilts.

From what I can see, there is nothing particularly clever about it, just that the edge of the usual knife-pleat is folded back by an inch or so, and sewn-down in the usual place with the rest of the pleat. I have seen older regimental kilts where the folded-back portion of the pleat is narrower, and sewn-down all the way along its length - which must restrict the amount of swish and sway of the pleats, but it keeps them neater and in place.

The fold-back is done carefully, to reveal the vertical stripe required, and, I would imagine, doubles the amount of work required.

I have often thought that, instead of the usual box-pleat, this form of turn-back pleat could be increased in size to, say two or three inches, while keeping the depth of the pleat normal. This would no doubt make for a bulky kilt at the rear, but probably easier for getting tucked-under neatly when sitting. I guess it would be a good way of using up more material with fewer pleats.

[Kitfoxdave]

The pleating could be the folded back on itself style - it has been a long day and I can't think of the correct term - it is a hybrid of knife and box pleats.
I suspect it is what a heavy hand sewn fabric could easily deform into over time, particularly if soldiers made their own pleats without a sturdy backing to sew it onto for support and shaping.

If you plan to make one I suggest checking the length required.

People are taller these days and proportions are different - check that there is enough fabric waist to shoulder if the plaid is made to match the kilt waist to lower edge measurement.
I think that the edge is raised to a little behind the epaulette, not right up to it, but it needs to have a bit of flow to it, not be pulled taut.

Anne the Pleater

Anne, I suspect that I will need to spend sometime pleating and basting, ripping it all apart and trying several times... The trial / experimenting fabric I have is double width, and close to 10 yards ("acrylic wool") that I purchased the "end of the bolt" so got it cheap. Should be plenty for this experiment. Once I get the experimental piece made, then I will purchase the good stuff!

[Pleater]

Anne, I suspect that I will need to spend sometime pleating and basting, ripping it all apart and trying several times... The trial / experimenting fabric I have is double width, and close to 10 yards ("acrylic wool") that I purchased the "end of the bolt" so got it cheap. Should be plenty for this experiment. Once I get the experimental piece made, then I will purchase the good stuff!

Being an engineer I have sometimes veered towards the observation that when all you have is a hammer a lot of things start to look like nails.

In the years since I needed more adjustable waistlines I have made kilts - or perhaps, more accurately - origamied skirts, out of some rather dire fabrics. The only truly spectacular fail was a tartan pattern which was not printed on the straight grain. The saddest was a fabric which was beautiful when new but was heavily 'weighted' so every time it was washed the water went black and the fabric became lighter and paler.

Other than those, most things have been wearable, even the one which was such a light material I worked with it doubled - which gave the added advantage of a closed lower edge. There were three shops close to here with windows which acted as mirrors and I have to confess to lingering for a few moments to check on the effects - Fahrenheit 451 moments, if you know what I mean.

I too have those tempting bargains, I should never type 'tartan fabric' into an eBay search window - though I do have some Ancient Armstrong and Modern Morrison all wool proper kilting fabric as a result of doing just that.
Our house will never blow away.

Anne the Pleater

[Kitfoxdave]

Anne, I am a retired Aircraft Stress Analysis Engineer... I understand your sentiment completely! The Acrylic fabric was the only way I could get this tartan (Breton Knight) the tartan is restricted, and have had no success with the many times I have tried contacting the designer.
This of course pushed me to a CUSTOM design tartan of my own which I will have woven in the coming years...
Why the Breton? Family name goes back to 832 AD in a monks recording, so may be quite a bit older...
Will weave a bit of history into it...

I really like the look of the 1820's half / belted / tailored plaid.