Wearing the kilt in Scotland

[Calgacus]

To my ears it sounds like 'islanders' too, and it would make sense as he apparently originates from the Isle of Skye, in the song. But either way I think it makes little difference, it's a comedy song written by a Glaswegian, so I'd put no weight whatsoever on its lyrical content.

There's no convention as such over the pronunciation of 'highland' or 'highlanders'. Both words are pronounced in one of two ways, the 'highland(ers)' variety being the standard English pronunciation, and the 'heiland(ers)' variety being the Scots pronunciation. The English pronunciation is probably the most common.

Yes, you are quite right, I think a discussion of historical dress in the highlands vs islands would make an interesting thread in its own right.

[Jock Scot]

I can tell you one young man's thoughts on kilts in the Hebrides. Whether that was a minority opinion I cannot say, but I suspect it might be a common thought and does fit in with personal experience there, over many years. As to the historical facts I am not sure, but I certainly get the impression that the kilt was not commonly worn there.

We were having a superb dinner on South Uist, when Mrs Jock asked our young waiter, a local, why he was not wearing the kilt-----he was wearing a pair of very well cut trews--- the reply was instantanious, "no one wears the kilt over here, not even for weddings."I have to say that in all honesty I was not surprised.

It was very noticable that tartan was not standard hotel decor, nor was there any local style music,--- no pipes, no fiddles, no accordian, no local style songs------- playing in any establishment that we visited. It made a refreshing change from the mainland and we did wonder if the locals were making a concerted effort to be different?

[Jordan]

One should be very circumspect about reading any meaning at all into Scottish comedy songs. Even some apparent folk songs are not what they appear. I can't remember the title of the song now, but there's a song which waxes lyrical about the blue mountains of Benbecula, or some such similarly flat island.

I think this should help, I remember this from a few years ago...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NjukQapSD0k

[Jack Daw]

Oops! Bad post.

[Calgacus]

I think this should help, I remember this from a few years ago...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NjukQapSD0k

That's the one!

...though it may be apocryphal, as I can't find any mention or record of it other than Connoly's skit.

[Half Scot Half Pole]

The drunken, violent Scot is a sterotype and one I only encountered once and that was in London when I was attacked by said stereotype after ejecting him from a bar. I arrested him and he got 6 months for assaulting a police officer. There are parts of London where it is dangerous to go and I suspect the same is true in most big cities, which is why whenever I've visited Scotland, I've avoided places like Glasgow.

Here in the states, esp. the South Eastern Appalachian Mountains, violence, bloodshed, etc. is associated with the Scotch-Irish settlers, those Scots resettled in Ireland and then emigrating to the Southern states, of whom which I proudly hale. We are the rule and by no means a stereotype. Our struggles are not considered our cultural due like other ethnic people group, we are disdained by the power elite and dismissed as "rednecks, crackers, inbred, uneducated".

A disdain for we "rednecks" is prevalent in the English descended/controlled more prosperous regions along the east coast. Our politicians use us as examples of "bad Americans". But civilization in the states often comes with a loss of faith, as humanistic ideals displace innate belief in the Almighty. Southern "redneck" religion is often called a superstition, and the whole idea of faith is left behind in academic and material pursuits by those who feel they are superior to we people of heritage. And the drunken and reckless lifestyle of the Scotch-Irish southerners is proof to the uninformed, but well dressed, civilized folk that we rednecks have no value in society, their version of society.

It was a Samaritan whom Christ offered as an example of applied love. Very well could've been a redneck.

[CeilidhDoc]

I can tell you one young man's thoughts on kilts in the Hebrides. Whether that was a minority opinion I cannot say, but I suspect it might be a common thought and does fit in with personal experience there, over many years. As to the historical facts I am not sure, but I certainly get the impression that the kilt was not commonly worn there.

We were having a superb dinner on South Uist, when Mrs Jock asked our young waiter, a local, why he was not wearing the kilt-----he was wearing a pair of very well cut trews--- the reply was instantanious, "no one wears the kilt over here, not even for weddings."I have to say that in all honesty I was not surprised.

It was very noticable that tartan was not standard hotel decor, nor was there any local style music,--- no pipes, no fiddles, no accordian, no local style songs------- playing in any establishment that we visited. It made a refreshing change from the mainland and we did wonder if the locals were making a concerted effort to be different?

This strikes me as surprising again, because arguably one of the most famous celtic musicians internationally is Julie Fowlis, and she hails from North Uist. She often speaks about how strong the culture was and how she was surrounded by traditional music growing up, as she does in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczDug2BNRo


But again, I don't live there so I get all this secondhand. Skye is the only part of the Hebrides I have visited myself. Some day I shall have to remedy that.

Slàinte

[Mel1721L]

Here in the states, esp. the South Eastern Appalachian Mountains, violence, bloodshed, etc. is associated with the Scotch-Irish settlers, those Scots resettled in Ireland and then emigrating to the Southern states, of whom which I proudly hale. We are the rule and by no means a stereotype. Our struggles are not considered our cultural due like other ethnic people group, we are disdained by the power elite and dismissed as "rednecks, crackers, inbred, uneducated".

A disdain for we "rednecks" is prevalent in the English descended/controlled more prosperous regions along the east coast. Our politicians use us as examples of "bad Americans". But civilization in the states often comes with a loss of faith, as humanistic ideals displace innate belief in the Almighty. Southern "redneck" religion is often called a superstition, and the whole idea of faith is left behind in academic and material pursuits by those who feel they are superior to we people of heritage. And the drunken and reckless lifestyle of the Scotch-Irish southerners is proof to the uninformed, but well dressed, civilized folk that we rednecks have no value in society, their version of society.

It was a Samaritan whom Christ offered as an example of applied love. Very well could've been a redneck.

Scotch is a whiskey, a Scot is a person, though not of Scottish ancestry myself, I believe it is something that annoys them. The author Charles Dickens always called them Scotchmen though.

The Scots originally came from Ireland, a tribe called the Scotti who subdued the Picts, I'm not well up on the details though.

If I had been born an American, I would like to have been born a Southerner. Perhaps I was in a previous life, for I certainly have always had an interest in the Confederacy and certainly many people with my family name fought on that side. I had considered a Confederate commemorative tartan kilt but as someone born in England, I felt it was inappropriate.

I think the education system in America and the UK is generally very bad,not just limited to the rednecks of the South. (Are there rednecks in the North?)

I will refrain from religious comment, as I think we aren't supposed to discuss those things here, but I am of the older religion.

[TheOfficialBren]

@ Ceilidh Doc

Regarding the comedic song's content: think Weird Al Yancovic...but Scottish.

Regarding the accent: think country music. Some (most, in my experience) of those singers exaggerate the accent in order to suit the genre and even play to the audience.

Regarding the islander/highlander lyric that was a different era in audio recording history. Simple mistakes were sometimes glossed over and left in because fixing them involved re-recording a passage in an era when re-recording was very expensive--you either got it right or lived with the mistakes on tape. I think it's simply a mistake on the singer's part. No biggie.

:-)

[Ron Abbott]

Scotch is a whiskey, a Scot is a person, though not of Scottish ancestry myself, I believe it is something that annoys them. The author Charles Dickens always called them Scotchmen though.

The Scots originally came from Ireland, a tribe called the Scotti who subdued the Picts, I'm not well up on the details though.

If I had been born an American, I would like to have been born a Southerner. Perhaps I was in a previous life, for I certainly have always had an interest in the Confederacy and certainly many people with my family name fought on that side. I had considered a Confederate commemorative tartan kilt but as someone born in England, I felt it was inappropriate.

I think the education system in America and the UK is generally very bad,not just limited to the rednecks of the South. (Are there rednecks in the North?)

I will refrain from religious comment, as I think we aren't supposed to discuss those things here, but I am of the older religion.

whiskey? whisky if you don't mind.

"The Scots originally came from Ireland"....well that's certainly what's been taught in the classrooms for a very long time, but in reality I think that you'll find that the jury is still out on that one. In more recent times, there have been some some academic discussions partly based on archaeological evidence (or non evidence?) and DNA analysis that suggests that it may not be the case.

"The Scotti who subdued the Picts"....hmmm.....jury's still out on that one as well. Subdued may not be the best of words. Subsumed perhaps? maybe culturally overwhelmed? Inter-married?

.......anyone got an alternative, better word or expression?

"I think the education system in America and the UK is generally very bad". Could be better I would certainly agree with but 'very bad'? In comparison with what? I'm not so sure. Even within the UK, Scotland has a different education system to that of England and Wales. Are we talking about formal education based on academic results or a more rounded education? So many questions.

The older religion? Buddhist? Zoastrian? Druid? Sun-worshipper?