kilt lifters

[Phil E. Begg]

Atagahi

I would agree with your stipulation that society expects us to (attempt) to get out of a situation without (further) violence.

However, I find that violence has been done when, after joking and then serious verbal warnings have been given, and perhaps a physical attempt to deflect the assault (not sexual, just simple assault), but the assault continues, self-defense is required. Whether that is best done by flipping open a phone and dialling 911 or whatever direct physical action is necessitated by the situation, depends entirely on circumstance.

State of mind of the victim - your imputed fear of homosexual assault or whatever - is completely immaterial. The action of attempting to expose someone against their will after direct warning is, pure and simple, an assault.


Phil

[LordKiltClad]

TSC,
You'll be glad to know that I chose "Why men in kilts aren't protected by the Civil Rights Act" as my topic for a college English paper.

[The Supreme Canuck]

TSC,
You'll be glad to know that I chose "Why men in kilts aren't protected by the Civil Rights Act" as my topic for a college English paper.

Actually, yes. VERY happy indeed.

The Wizard of BC: That's exactly as it should be.

[oregonscot]

No means no. That has been drilled into men's minds as long as I can remember. Maybe it's time others learned that same lesson.

[Oldhiker]

If it were I who got arrested for public exposure from a kilt lifting incident, surely the judge would let me off for the lack of evidence...

I am still waiting on my first kilt so I have yet to experience this phenom.

Gentlemen don't go around looking up or pulling up women's skirts. The imagination is so much better than reality.

[Mountainman]

Haven't had this unfortunate experience yet, though this is a very informative thread. lots of good responses to such attempts.

[Jaggy thistle]

when asked the question my standard reply is that is for me to know and you to find out with some very interesting and pleasant results!

[RK-REX]

Haven't had this unfortunate experience yet, though this is a very informative thread. lots of good responses to such attempts.

Just realize that it WILL happen someday and for the most part, it's not a big deal. It all depends upon you, your mood and the attitude of the person who wants to see. I have grabbed the wrist of a woman who had my apron a few inches up before I realized it. She didn't ask and I didn't offer. She got the same stern "NO" that my dog gets when he tries to get up on the couch. She got all pissy and stormed away. If she'd just asked....

I've had women ask if they could see what was under "there" whilst out on the town and if they're polite and it's all in fun, I tell them that for a round of drinks for my friends and I, they can have a peek under the pleats. Most will back off, but a few will gladly pay up. Again, it all depends on your personality, where you are, your mood and the attitude of the person asking. It's really not that big of a problem for me and I just think it comes with wearing a kilt. Others disagree, and that's fine. After all, it is YOUR **** under there.

Men on the other hand....I've had it happen twice, one was stopped with a glare and a subtle shaking of my head. The other I asked if I could do the same to his wife. He stopped.

Actually, there was one other time, but it was a woman who lifted it for the men. I was in Chicago on an extremely cold, windy day and there were a group of guys behind us, two couples I found out after we chatted. Mother Nature lifted the pleats as high as they'd go for a few seconds. Lynn caught it out of the corner of her eye and, um...assisted. I looked over my shoulder and said "sorry about that I wasn't quick enough to catch it." I have to admit it was a bit weird knowing I'd inadvertently flashed 4 gay men, but we all had a good laugh about it. No harm done.

One must be secure in their masculinity and have a thick skin to wear a kilt. It's your choice, I'm just not bothered by it, must be the rugby parties.

[Phil E. Begg]

Orangehaggis

Well, there is a Kilt Lifter Ale, a microbrew sort of thing distributed through the DuClaws chain in the States. Not bad, not great - I think "Inoffensive" would, ironically, be the best description for the taste.


Phil

[AtagahiKC]

Phil E. Begg: I agree that if warnings have been given, lifting a kilt without permission is not right.

My point centered around a kilt lifting without notice. I think the two situations call for different countermeasures. But I don't know that I'd call the police.

Was it an assault? I don't know that the level of harm rises to the legal requirements in most states. It would depend a lot on whether the victim felt threatened or not, which is a required element. Thus, my discussion of the state of mind of the victim. I think that there would be problems with showing that the perpetrator intended to cause physical harm, as well.

These are all subjective questions for a jury to decide. One thing I learned long ago is that the truth is what the jury believes is the truth. That makes it unpredictable from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

But that is just my two cents on the matter. Everyone is free to his or her own opinion.