Too Traditional?

[kilted scholar]

If one understands tradition as a living, dynamic reality the answer to the question is no.
If such tradition degenerates into traditionalism, which we can suppose to refer to the maintenance of a past practice - real or imagined - for its own sake, the answer would probably be yes.
Now we're at 300.

[CMcG]

So you're saying the Scots invented a sartorial form of precursor to the Rubik's Cube, except they're trying to keep all of the squares from matching?

I think you've figured it out!

Your example is certainly overdressed for the occasion, but in no way too traditional.

You can't be too traditional. You are either traditional or not traditional. In the same way you can't be too contemporary.

It's a pity you didn't write that at the beginning of this long and interesting conversation, so that you could have saved us the bother.

Sarcasm aside, I can see your point. The spirit of the discussion for the last 300 odd posts, however, has been to think of "too traditional" as the variety of possibilities that encompass efforts to dress correctly in a traditional way, but to go too far in some direction and thereby fail to get it right.

If one understands tradition as a living, dynamic reality the answer to the question is no.
If such tradition degenerates into traditionalism, which we can suppose to refer to the maintenance of a past practice - real or imagined - for its own sake, the answer would probably be yes.
Now we're at 300.

Woohoo! (My bold and font size added.)

[rmckay]

First off, let me say thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread, it is probably one of the best I have seen.

Now with that out of the way, let me ask all of you a question that just seems to go right over my head. For starters I get confused enough about sporrans that I only have one, a decent black leather one. Which sporrans would be considered correct for most day wear and which ones would you look at someone and say they are trying to hard?

Take my simple black leather sporran, its not a Rob Roy style or anything like that, if I was to wear it to a non-formal event at night would I be the guy not trying hard enough?

I really think I am starting to get the idea behind traditional and not going overboard with most things, but with the variety of sporrans available how they fit in the picture still just eludes me.

Hopefully everyone understands my question.

[Downunder Kilt]

For a non formal night out/event your black sporran sounds fine just as it would be for non formal daywear. In non formal situations a plain black sporran is most presentable. As you step up to more formal situations in is not unusual to see black leather sporrans with a white metal cantles or a range of head on sporrans, goathair/horsehair/sealskin sporrans. A head on sporran such as a muskrat/musquash one is equally presentable for non formal and formal events. Yes it's a minefield, but there are many knowledgeable people on this forum to help you out.

I wont get into brown leather sporrans, plain and with various styles of cantles, suffice to say that for daywear brown is always acceptable.

[creagdhubh]

Here are a couple of photos taken of me at the 2012 Missouri Tartan Day over this past weekend. Despite the thunderstorms and the mud (wish I would have packed my wellys!), we had a superb time! Is my attire 'too traditional' I wonder? Hahaha! Honestly, I don't care if it is or not. This is how I choose to dress the majority of the time when wearing Highland day attire and I tend to think that in this particular case, the context was quite appropriate.

Being home in St. Louis just made me realise even more, how much I miss my family, friends and my home (same goes for my 'extended' family in Scotland, who I think about everyday). Enjoy.




Cheers,

[MacSpadger]

Is my attire 'too traditional' I wonder?

Kyle, you'd fit right in at any event over here, and would not stand out in the crowd, (except maybe the animal that makes up your sporran might be recognised as not coming from Auchtermuchty), so, mission accomplished.

[creagdhubh]

Kyle, you'd fit right in at any event over here, and would not stand out in the crowd, (except maybe the animal that makes up your sporran might be recognised as not coming from Auchtermuchty), so, mission accomplished.

Cheers, MacSpadger. You mean there are no Scottish Pine martens in Auchtermuchty? I thought Jimmy Shand wore these style of sporrans too. Hahaha, just kidding mate!

Kind regards,

[davidlpope]

While it is true that button-down collars were designed for active pursuits and brogues were originally country shoes I think we are well past the point that these things are strictly relegated to these positions. It may show more class (or at least better fashion sense) to not wear button-downs or brogues with a suit, but at least in the United States we are well past the point where doing so is gauche. Remember clothing styles evolve.

Kenneth, good point. My concern is that many changes in style have more to do with marketing by retailers than an actual evolution by society. By way of example, two friends of mine, both college graduates and Marine officers, one a graduate of a well-respected western law school, were leaving the Marine Corps and interviewing for civilian jobs. They came to me with questions about interview attire, etc. I was amazed by how little they knew concerning men's business attire. Their entire knowledge base was what the salesman at Brooks Brothers had shared with them during a visit to the shop. They had dinner at the house and I took about an hour and discussed some basic pointers about a man's conservative business wardrobe and they left very appreciative and well-prepared for interviews.

My point is this: these are very sharp, very bright guys, but there was no mechanism in their 25+ years of life to transmit this info to them. As a result, they were at the mercy of the salesman at the shop. Since they had gone to BB, they were luckier than most. I can attest that the local saleswoman at the small neighborhood Belk store is much, much less knowledgeable, and generally recommends whatever the store has in stock.

The same happens with many highland attire retailers- hence gads and gads of white hose, fly plaids, ruche ties, tartan flashes, and pirate shirts foisted on the unsuspecting consumer because they think "this is what I'm supposed to wear when I dress up in Scottish duds". Most novice kiltwearers simply rely on what "the guy at the shop told them." Some highland suppliers (thankfully, not the folks who are wise enought to advertise on Xmarks...) are simply ignorant concerning the products they sell to the public.

That's one of the reasons that Xmarks provides such a great service to the kilt-wearing world...

[creagdhubh]

Kenneth, good point. My concern is that many changes in style have more to do with marketing by retailers than an actual evolution by society. By way of example, two friends of mine, both college graduates and Marine officers, one a graduate of a well-respected western law school, were leaving the Marine Corps and interviewing for civilian jobs. They came to me with questions about interview attire, etc. I was amazed by how little they knew concerning men's business attire. Their entire knowledge base was what the salesman at Brooks Brothers had shared with them during a visit to the shop. They had dinner at the house and I took about an hour and discussed some basic pointers about a man's conservative business wardrobe and they left very appreciative and well-prepared for interviews.

My point is this: these are very sharp, very bright guys, but there was no mechanism in their 25+ years of life to transmit this info to them. As a result, they were at the mercy of the salesman at the shop. Since they had gone to BB, they were luckier than most. I can attest that the local saleswoman at the small neighborhood Belk store is much, much less knowledgeable, and generally recommends whatever the store has in stock.

The same happens with many highland attire retailers- hence gads and gads of white hose, fly plaids, ruche ties, tartan flashes, and pirate shirts foisted on the unsuspecting consumer because they think "this is what I'm supposed to wear when I dress up in Scottish duds". Most novice kiltwearers simply rely on what "the guy at the shop told them." Some highland suppliers (thankfully, not the folks who are wise enought to advertise on Xmarks...) are simply ignorant concerning the products they sell to the public.

That's one of the reasons that Xmarks provides such a great service to the kilt-wearing world...

Wonderfully put, David.

[davidlpope]

I guess there might be a certain disconnect (interpreted as an affectation) if one usually dresses very informally (jeans, undershirts worn as outer clothing, short pants when not exercising, etc.) on a daily basis but wears a jacket, waistcoat, and necktie with one's kilt.

On the other hand, if one wears a suit and tie every day to work, to worship on Sundays, and a tie, slacks, and blazer when taking the bride out for a nice dinner on Saturday night, it doesn't seem out of place to wear a tie and tweed jacket when kilted (when the weather is appropriate).

For those of us who didn't grow up wearing the kilt, perhaps it comes down to a question of who you want to emulate: the middle-aged American in the puffy pirate shirt with the big sword and blue facepaint or those Highlanders who have worn the kilt from birth in the manner of their ancestors...