I would like to submit a proposal to the membership

[Hawk]

I like Nathan's suggestions as Ratspike also agreed. I like the way this is heading. I also like posting #19 in this thread by Steve, as it shows clearly that we are an accepting community of kilt wearing people and kilt interest people, of all shapes, sizes, backgrounds, fashion sense, etc....

The only suggestion I would add was be sure to include that General Kilt subsection in the tweaking of categories. Keep up the discussion, as I'd also like to hear what some of our contributors, history folks, and kilt makers have to say ( Rocky, Steve, Bob-Ratspike, Bonnie, etc., etc...).

Hawk

[CDNSushi]

I like the direction Nathan has taken this. It seems to hit all the major points well.

[hector]

What I am seeing more and more of is an attitude of elitism and ego boosting about being so right, so Scottish.

Unfortunately this is very true.

[Calgacus]

Another big 'plus one' (Kyleism) for Nathan's post #6

[JonathanB]

I seriously wonder that if there is confusion between three categories, as at present, there will be even more confusion between five categories as Nathan suggests.

How about just two categories? Trad and modern? The trouble is the smug superiority that attaches to the word Traditionalism.

I post on another messageboard of Christian interest. There can be discussions of the detail of appropriate vestments. These discussions are nothing when it comes to nit picking and dogmatism compared to discussions of kilts here at times.

For me tradition doesn't mean lack of change. It is the means by which change and continuity are held together.

[Nathan]

I seriously wonder that if there is confusion between three categories, as at present, there will be even more confusion between five categories as Nathan suggests.

How about just two categories? Trad and modern? The trouble is the smug superiority that attaches to the word Traditionalism.

I post on another messageboard of Christian interest. There can be discussions of the detail of appropriate vestments. These discussions are nothing when it comes to nit picking and dogmatism compared to discussions of kilts here at times.

For me tradition doesn't mean lack of change. It is the means by which change and continuity are held together.

I think "modern" implies that traditional is "old fashioned" and I actually believe you are dead on that it is the means by which change and continuity are held together. That's why I wrote, "now" with due respect given to "then".

People who dress traditionally are not dressing historically. They are dressing traditionally. Which is to say, they are wearing what is seen today as correct -yes, correct - by tradition bearers.

I don't think non-traditional is second class. Given the hostility I'm feeling toward the tradition around here by some, I think the non-traditionalists are quite capable of owning that accurate label. Their clothing is no more modern than mine, it's just less traditional.

[Father Bill]

I think "modern" implies that traditional is "old fashioned" and I actually believe you are dead on that it is the means by which change and continuity are held together. That's why I wrote, "now" with due respect given to "then".

People who dress traditionally are not dressing historically. They are dressing traditionally. Which is to say, they are wearing what is seen today as correct -yes, correct - by tradition bearers.

I don't think non-traditional is second class. Given the hostility I'm feeling toward the tradition around here by some, I think the non-traditionalists are quite capable of owning that accurate label. Their clothing is no more modern than mine, it's just less traditional.

A simple "Aye" isn't nearly strong enough for me on this one. Steve is quite right to stand up for the non-traditionalists, but yes, I detect more than just an undercurrent of hostility against those who seek to be traditional too... whatever those terms may mean!

[Calgacus]

I think "modern" implies that traditional is "old fashioned" and I actually believe you are dead on that it is the means by which change and continuity are held together. That's why I wrote, "now" with due respect given to "then".

People who dress traditionally are not dressing historically. They are dressing traditionally. Which is to say, they are wearing what is seen today as correct -yes, correct - by tradition bearers.

I don't think non-traditional is second class. Given the hostility I'm feeling toward the tradition around here by some, I think the non-traditionalists are quite capable of owning that accurate label. Their clothing is no more modern than mine, it's just less traditional.

Precisely! Well said, Nathan.

[CMcG]

...
I am honestly trying to find a way to make everyone who chooses to put on a kilt, for whatever reason, to be welcome here.
...

Steve, I think that is an excellent sentiment.

Here are my suggestions for style sub-fora. I have drawn on Nathan's "approaches" approach, but did a bit of tweaking.

Historical and Costume Kilt Wear: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt from a bygone era—whether accurate, theatrical, or anachronistic.

Fashion Kilt Wear: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt that follow the latest trends in retail, rental/hire, and runway style.

Traditional Kilt Wear: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt as contemporary Highland attire that has been passed down from generation to generation.

Postmodern Kilt Wear: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt as everyday clothing and/or street wear that privileges personal interpretation.


The General and Accessories sub-fora will remain a free-for-all because they are open. I guess we're missing a section on uniforms, but that is more a question of regulations than options... I suppose solo pipers who have the freedom to choose could post in the Celtic Music section?

And for visual examples, here are pics of the inimitable Panache because he is one of the few people—if not the only person—who has posted photos of himself in all four categories.


Historical and Costume Kilt Wear:




Fashion Kilt Wear:





Traditional Kilt Wear:





Postmodern Kilt Wear:

[Father Bill]

Steve, I think that is an excellent sentiment

Here are my suggestions for style sub-fora. I have drawn on Nathan's "approaches" approach, but did a bit of tweaking.

Historical and Costume Kilt Wear: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt from a bygone era—whether accurate, theatrical, or anachronistic.

Fashion Kilt Wear: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt that follow the latest trends in retail, rental/hire, and runway style.

Traditional Kilt Wear: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt as contemporary Highland attire that has been passed down from generation to generation.

Postmodern Kilt Wear: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt as everyday clothing and street wear that privileges personal interpretation.


The General and Accessories sub-fora will remain a free-for-all because they are open. I guess we're missing a section on uniforms, but that is more a question of regulations than options... I suppose solo pipers who have the freedom to choose could post in the Celtic Music section?

I REALLY like this categorization because it would allow me to ignore the segments that don't interest me as much. Steve, that's the problem with some of the overlapping categories; there are some that I really don't want the bother of sorting through while others fascinate me. That's an advantage in our current system; I worry that if we get some different criteria I may lose interest entirely when I have to read through stuff to see if it's what I care about.