X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 25 of 25
  1. #21
    Join Date
    14th June 21
    Location
    Fettercairn
    Posts
    515
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by neloon View Post
    I think most people find accounts by English tourists like Burt to be very dubious attempts to confirm the savagery of the Highlands.

    Bishop Leslie, a very reputable source writing in 1578, tells us that Highlanders wore "foemoralia simplicissima, pudori quam frigori aut pompae aptiora" = "very simple shorts, for decency rather than against the cold or for ostentation". At about the same time, Lucas de Heere painted what seems to be a very accurate picture of a "Savage Scotsman" - possibly a mercenary in one of the many European wars.
    https://www.englandcast.com/wp-conte...sman.jpeg.jpeg
    Shortly afterwards, the feileadh was removed from the shoulders and belted around the waist. There is no reason to suppose that the shorts/trews were abandoned.

    Alan
    I agree.

    Visitors to other lands tend to report of the differences, rather than the similarities they find. What the European cosmographers or envoys record from the 15th century onwards seem to tally even if the terminology varies.

    Burt is actually surprisingly objective in his observations (his work compares well with 20th century travel-writing), and the Highlanders come in for no more criticism than Lowlanders of the English he mentions. Much of what he observes shows the English 'society' in an unflattering light, but his disapproval clearly finds cause in the Highland gentry. Clan chiefs, he quickly recognises, are the principal obstacle to improvement in the Highlanders' lot. He finds them base, but not savages, and goes to some pains to point this out to his English reader.

    One of the fuller descriptions given by Burt is often quoted, and notes that it '...makes an agreeable Figure.' The cruicial final sentence is usually ommited - 'But this you have seen in London, and is chiefly their mode of dress when they are in the Lowlands.'

    Another of his descriptions details the 'common habit' of the plaid, belted as we know it, which '...is far from acceptable to the eye.' He calls this 'the Quelt' and says 'In this way of wearing the plaid, they have sometimes nothing else to cover them... in a windy Day, going up a Hill, or stooping, the Indecency of it is plainly discovered.'

    Another reference is of being met by host host on the approach to the house. Burt records '...he was without Shoes, Stockings, or Breeches, in a short Coat and with a Shirt not much longer, which hung between his Thighs, and just hid his nakedness...'

    Had the short trews been worn, I am certain Burt would have mentioned it, being a crucial detail.

    French illustrations and accounts of the Highlanders making up the occupying forces after Waterloo, show their reputation for being 'regimental' was regularly put to the test.
    Last edited by Troglodyte; 16th February 22 at 04:03 AM.

  2. The Following User Says 'Aye' to Troglodyte For This Useful Post:


  3. #22
    Join Date
    22nd July 08
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    By the way Arnish moor body didn't have any breeches and underwear (or it was destroyed by the peat).
    According to Martin Martin (1716), men in the Hebrides at this period generally wore coat, waistcoat and breeches, as elsewhere. McClintock ("Old Irish and Highland Dress") quotes a letter of 1786 from John Pinkerton's Literary Correspondence which gives an account of the gathering of Highlanders to join the Pretender in 1715: this mentions that some were dressed in nothing more than a long coat, having no shirt or breeches. McClintock ("Old Irish and Highland Dress") also quotes a letter from the Edinburgh Magazine, March 1785, which describes Highland dress earlier in the century. It records that those who did not
    wear a plaid, or who could not afford breeches, 'wore short coats, waistcoats, and shirts of as
    great a length as they could afford; and such parts as were not covered by these remained naked
    to the tying of garters on their hose'.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    28th November 20
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    62
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemuragh View Post
    My recollection is that he said the mirror was at the door (out onto the parade ground?). He definitely thought it was to check that nothing was being worn. However, he might have been mistaken since it doesn’t seem to have been in use; it might have been the opposite.
    Again a post WW2 anecdote but my dad was an NCO who served in Highland regiments in the late 50's/60's. He talked about a highly polished piece of steel set into the ground in doorways to check whether underwear was being worn as soldiers passed through, which would make more sense than a mirror given the footwear worn back then. As always with old soldiers though, it's difficult to know if they are pulling your leg . Might be worth looking out for such a thing if you're wandering around an old barracks.

    EEM
    "Humanity is an aspiration, not a fact of everyday life."

  5. #24
    Join Date
    14th June 21
    Location
    Fettercairn
    Posts
    515
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The thing is, though, if as kilt-wearers we are not bound by military regulations, does it really matter if the kilt is worn 'regimental' style or therwise?

    On the point of hygiene, wearing something appropriate under the kilt seems sensible, as underwear will be laundered regularly and frequently but not so the kilt.

    Also, there is a point to be made in the interests of modesty and thought for others. Not everyone likes to be subjected to what others seem determined to show off, and pride in the display usually far excededs the merits of what is displayed.

    But each to his own...

  6. The Following 11 Users say 'Aye' to Troglodyte For This Useful Post:


  7. #25
    Join Date
    11th November 21
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    43
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Micrographia View Post
    Again a post WW2 anecdote but my dad was an NCO who served in Highland regiments in the late 50's/60's. He talked about a highly polished piece of steel set into the ground in doorways to check whether underwear was being worn as soldiers passed through, which would make more sense than a mirror given the footwear worn back then. As always with old soldiers though, it's difficult to know if they are pulling your leg . Might be worth looking out for such a thing if you're wandering around an old barracks.
    Yes, the thing that always make me doubt tales like this is that it feels like the sort of thing notable enough that somebody would have taken a picture of at some point, or written about it at the time, or where an example would have survived to the present day. I do have some suspicions there may be a bit of collective leg-pulling (or at least exaggeration) going on amongst some old soldiers! (Not that that necessarily means the tradition itself didn’t exist, of course – post war there seems plenty of evidence for that).

  8. The Following User Says 'Aye' to Regimental For This Useful Post:


Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0