Will you order an X Marks kilt?

[Thistle Stop]

In working out the price of the tartan, another thing to consider is whether or not it is to be officially recorded as a new tartan with the Scottish Tartans Authority. Recording fees (in Sterling) are £50 or £75 for members, depending on the category, and £75 or £100 for non-members. (Several X Marks members are members of the STA, including me.) That's from about $95.00 USD to $190.00 USD currently. That expense should be split amongst the people ordering tartan. A sample of the tartan (enough to show the full sett) must be submitted to the STA with the registration application. A recording certificate is provided, which should go to either Matt or Hank, I'd say.

Just for the sake of discussion, let me give an example of what a realistic cost for this kind of enterprise might be, in 'the real world'. I am currently working with a client who requested a new tartan for his surname (he is the official head of an Irish family, so named by the Chief Herald of Ireland, so he has a right to designate a tartan for the name). He is paying me €2300 ($2957.43 USD as of today) for three tartan designs (standard, hunting, and dress), recording all three, 10 metres of his tartan (standard sett only at this time) in 16 oz. worsted wool twill, and two 8-yard kilts. By the time I have paid the VAT on it (because it goes to my kiltmaker in Scotland from the mill, and the client is in Europe, too, so the finished kilts also incur VAT), the Customs tariff and Customs brokerage fee, and the carriage, I will not be making very much for all my work and 'creative genius' !

Woollen tartan is worth every penny it costs, but it just is not cheap, and for very good reason. It's produced from the finest of wool, processed and spun in the very best way possible, and manufactured into cloth with great expertise in a first-world country where the workers earn a decent living wage. Special looms are required for tartan, so it isn't even possible for just any fabric mill to produce it. Tartan-weaving is a proud and noble tradition that deserves respect and preservation. But that all costs money!

[Alan H]

If anyone will commit to a poly-viscose purchase, you need to pipe up before tomorrow morning, because the interest in PV isn't exactly bowling me over, here.

At this point it looks like we have just barely enough for a minimum order in 16 ounce wool. Barely.

[Alan H]

In working out the price of the tartan, another thing to consider is whether or not it is to be officially recorded as a new tartan with the Scottish Tartans Authority.

I think registering the tartan would be a very cool thing, and if someone wants to pursue that project, I'm all for it! I am working to get wool made to get stitched into kilts, though. That's my goal, here. Now, if someone wants to order an extra half-yard to submit to the Tartan Authority, that's just excellent.

[Alan H]

OK, it seems clear that the interest is just not here for poly-viscose material for an X-Marks kilt. I will no longer pursue this option, and will focus on the 16 ounce wool. Anyone who wants a poly-viscose or other blended fabric kilt is more than welcome to pursue it on their own, of course.

No More PV.

*****

Taking PV out of the picture puts the two Mills on a more even footing in terms of the big decision. The Canadian mill has a higher price for tartan, but because of certain specifics, we might be able to get it out to X Markers for a lower price than the British Mill's product. However, the British Mill's up-front price for material is unbeatable.

At least one kiltmaker on the board and one person who's making a kilts, but isn't a professional kiltmaker, have experience working with material from the Canadian mill. Several people have experience working with the British Mill. One kiltmaker here has ordered swatches from them. My swatches from the Brits have already started the journey around North America to several kiltmakers to have them weigh in with their opinions. I anticipate that we'll ahve a decision about which mill to buy from in about two weeks.

So if you want to chime in here about how you are ready to commit to two or four more yards of double-width 16 ounce worsted tartan, go right ahead.

[Graham]

Yes, I'd fancy a kilt from the Xmarks tartan, either 4 yard or 8 yard, not box, knife pleats.

I'd be happy for it to be made by whoever, Cyndi, Matt or Rocky maybe?

[Jerry]

Allan, I'll commit to purchasing 2 meters of the double width 16 os wool. (my wife is going to kill me), and would be willing to help split the cost of registration too. I might have to wait a while to order a kilt, but I don't think wool goes bad. Something which would help a lot of us make a decision would be if some of the kilt makers here could provide a rough estimate on how much they would charge us to make a kilt.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Just a note about getting the tartan listed or recorded with the Scottish Tartans Authority. The tartan, technically speaking, is not "registered" and this certainly does not need to be done to make it official. What makes it officially the "X Marks" tartan is the approval of the guy in charge of X Marks.

That being said, the STA will "list" a tartan for free. What this means is that I send them a peice of the cloth (large enough to show the sett) and fill out some forms giving some details about the tartan, and it gets listed in the International Tartan Index (ITI) with no fanfare or ceremony.

What Cyndi was talking about was having it "recorded" which entails the same sort of thing as above, only you pay the good people at the STA some money for their efforts (which is always a nice thing to do), and you also get a nice official certificate of recording (multiple copies if you like), which can also be framed and matted with a sample of your new tartan.

So, all this is to say that there are different avenues to persue down this path. As the designer of the tartan, I plan on having it listed no matter what. I'll go about having it recorded if either Hank wants to put up the money for it, or the group members together want to go in on it.

Aye,
Matt

[Thistle Stop]

Thanks for setting that straight, Matt. Since I am always working with clients who want the certificate of recording, I never just list a tartan, so I was not thinking of that as an alternative, but of course it makes good sense!

[Alan H]

Allan, I'll commit to purchasing 2 meters of the double width 16 os wool. (my wife is going to kill me), and would be willing to help split the cost of registration too. I might have to wait a while to order a kilt, but I don't think wool goes bad. Something which would help a lot of us make a decision would be if some of the kilt makers here could provide a rough estimate on how much they would charge us to make a kilt.

Before I submit my recommendation to Chief Hank... (hey Hank, where are you? I've had no response to my last 3 PM's) I want to have at least 2-3 people who work with kilts see the samples. So I've made arrangements for the following people to see the swatches from N. Bately: Steve from Freedom Kilts, Bear, M.A.C. Newscome, and Cydni from Thistle Stop. Rocky from USA Kilts told me he's ordered some swatches from N. Bately as well, so he'll have an opinion. I can't send swatches to everyone, and I figured this was a pretty educated cross-sampling, so there we go.

Bear works with Fraser and Kirkbright cloth all the time, and I believe Colin is making a kilt from Fraser and Kirkbright material. If you visit www.thescottishweaver.com you'[ll see F&K's 11 ounce line of tartan, but they custom weave in heavier weights as well. So when we finally get there, we will have lots of "data" on hand to make a good decision. Honestly, I believe that both of these mills turn out a first-class product, so in fact it will probably come down to price and speed.

Regarding what a kilt will cost, just go visit the kiltmakers websites and look! Make a reasonable guesstimate of what the "break" will be if you supply the kiltmaker with the material and go from there. You can get within $20 - $30 of the actual cost, for sure. If that's not close enough, one e-mail will give you the answer.

[Alan H]

Yes, I'd fancy a kilt from the Xmarks tartan, either 4 yard or 8 yard, not box, knife pleats.

I'd be happy for it to be made by whoever, Cyndi, Matt or Rocky maybe?

Great! We have "commitments" for a minimum order, right here in this thread now, so I'll keep pursuing it.