Saltire Sporran

[Mike1]

Understand that if there is an official reason for Tenerife to be someplace, you will see the Cross of St. Andrew. Scotland would have to use the Union Jack.

Which says more about the reality that Westminster assumes all "official reason" for Scotland , than anything about the St. Andrew's Cross being Scotland's national flag.

And again, the recognized flag of the UK is properly identified as a Union flag, not as a Union Jack. A Union Jack is the jack that is flown on the jackstaff of a Royal Navy vessel. It is a common mistake to refer to the Union flag as a Union Jack, but it is still a mistake.

The Union flag is the national flag of the UK. Period.

Again, using G8 as perfect example of this simple fact, Downing Street has determined that the UK, and not Scotland, is to be showcased during the summit, hence the order that Gleneagles lower the Scottish Saltire and raise the UK's national flag, or Union flag, in its place.

Wikipedia
World Flag Database
Visit Scotland
Scots Independent which makes the following key comments -

"In the latter half of the 20th century, there was a major resurgence in the use of the St Andrew’s Cross, and it has regained its status as the legally established national flag of Scotland. It is used by all Scottish teams in international competitions. It is now widely flown on the flagstaffs of public buildings, sometimes alone and sometimes side by side with the Union Flag. The saltire is also used by many bodies, both private and public, as a logo, a purpose for which it is well suited." [emphasis mine]

Information can be found on this site for becoming a Friend of the Scottish Flag trust, for those that might be interested.

Alba West
Celtia Info
The Heraldry Society of Scotland
World Flags 101
Simply Scottish
Silicon Glen

Each of these links will support the fact that the St. Andrew's Cross is indeed the national flag of Scotland, whether Westminster likes seeing it displayed or not.

[Archangel]

To hell with the Foreign Office. If they want the Union flag flown it can fly UNDER the Saltire. Keep the Saltire flying at Gleneagles.

this is the right attitude but it's not the legal position. and that's the problem I'm trying to point out. In Scotland, the saltire must fly below the Union Jack, as Her Majesty's website refers to it, but what would they know about its proper name? Not too sure if the Saltire is third in priority when Queen Elizabeth 1 of Scotland (sic) is present. Remember, Scotland is not really an independant nation...yet.

Checking the references above, mostly from electricscotland which cautions viewers on its contents, won't give a date on the official recognition of the Saltire. Lord Lyon recognizes it and that is very important. I can't find any indication that the new Scottish Parliament has fully legalized it, except by common law. Nor that the Scottish Parliament has recognized Lord Lyon anew.

Also, readers should be aware of the internal political game that the Saltire is associated with the SNP, and gov't recognition will weaken that.

[highlander_Daz]

It is approriate that the Union flag be flown for the G8 summit, Britain is hosting the G8 summit and if the people that think the Saltire should be flown then look closely and there it is !! its part of the union flag!!

Rightly or wrongly the union exists so its appropriate that the Union flag be flown, One day there might be a day when that flag no longer exists !!!

If the G8 was held in the US "Old glory" would be fluttering in the wind, if someone suggested that only the state flag be flown i'm sure there would be bewilderment.

The G8 summit could save the lives of 3000 children a DAY and its being thrashed out on Scottish soil, the country that gave the world, TV, refrigerater, the fax machine, pneumatic tyres, concrete, oh and KILTs !!!!

lets not forget that

[bubba]

Highlander, I rather doubt they'll substantially accomplish anything other than contribute to global warming with all the hot air they'll be spewing. It'll be a case of when all is said and done, much will be said and nothing done.

[highlander_Daz]

I agree bubba, these men are some of the most desperate self seeking and greedy men on the planet, they will achieve very little, but we can hope my friend

[Archangel]

...but I digress, the sporran is good looking, as is the rest of the website. My daughter was terrified when I showed her the black/flame kilt. She knows my rockabilly tastes.

[Andrew Breecher]

Understand that if there is an official reason for Tenerife to be someplace, you will see the Cross of St. Andrew. Scotland would have to use the Union Jack.

Why? Why couldn't two countries possibly have the same flag? Each flag is an individual piece of heraldry representing the country it belongs to. There are reasons for each flag's colours and patterns. Just because Tenerife wants to have a white cross on a blue field doesn't mean that hundreds of years of Scottish history in using a similar flag are negated. If Scotland ever had the opportunity to be represented as a sovereign country it would certainly use the Saltire, and people could just deal with the fact that there are two flags of the same design.

Andrew.

[macwilkin]

Why? Why couldn't two countries possibly have the same flag? Each flag is an individual piece of heraldry representing the country it belongs to. There are reasons for each flag's colours and patterns. Just because Tenerife wants to have a white cross on a blue field doesn't mean that hundreds of years of Scottish history in using a similar flag are negated. If Scotland ever had the opportunity to be represented as a sovereign country it would certainly use the Saltire, and people could just deal with the fact that there are two flags of the same design.

Andrew.

Poland & Monaco, for instance, both share a similar design.

Where exactly IS this "Tenerife"? I can't say I've ever heard of it? Is it a micro-nation?

Cheers,

Todd

[Archangel]

Poland & Monaco, for instance, both share a similar design.

Where exactly IS this "Tenerife"? I can't say I've ever heard of it? Is it a micro-nation?

Cheers,

Todd

it's a martial thing, in war one has to be able to identify friend or foe, so flags have to be distinctly different, e.g., in WW1 British ground troops shot down planes flying the Union Jack since, from the ground, it resembled the German cross. The tricolour roundel was distinct.

Tenerife is in the Canary Islands, you might remember it from a horrendous disaster involving two jumbo jets in the '80's, I think.

[Andrew Breecher]

it's a martial thing, in war one has to be able to identify friend or foe, so flags have to be distinctly different, e.g., in WW1 British ground troops shot down planes flying the Union Jack since, from the ground, it resembled the German cross. The tricolour roundel was distinct.

So when Tenerife and Scotland go to war, Scotland will have to adopt a thistle insignia on its fighter jets to keep from shooting down it's own planes. You know, the next time Scotland goes to war against the Canary Islands.

Andrew.