Nazareth Mudmen

[davedove]

Earlier, I was reading, a gentle answer turns away wrath.

Or, in the words of Dalton from Roadhouse, "Be Nice."

[Archangel]

Jewddha's story has a very important point in it and it is step two of my philosophy to fighting.

The first I call Miyagi's Rule: be somewhere else.

The second is the Two Argument Rule: argument one is the issue, argument two is "who is the better fighter?". Quickly figure out which one has to be responded to.

The third rule is: always leave a face saving way out.

They've worked for me for most of my life. My son has them down pretty well, my daughter rarely allows the last one.

The last post is good because it reminds us that the most important martial art is the art of courtesy.

Notes to posts of Mudmen music: their cds have been playing in my car for two weeks now. I'm still enjoying them.

[Dreadbelly]

Arch, if you don't mind me asking... Because I always wanted to know from an actual martial arts instructor. It's complicated.

Way back when I was 19 years old, I worked nights as a bouncer in a bar. I loved fighting at the time. I figured it was a great way to make money. So anyhow, one night, there was this one guy in there and he was just raising a ruckus, harassing the waitresses, and generally just being a pain. So I was told to make him go home.

When I told him to leave and he refused, he warned me that he was a black belt in karate to such and such a degree and he had mysical kung fu powers. And he was in there to celebrate winning some sort of compitition. And he said "Go away little boy" which really annoyed me, as nothing gets me as irritated as poking fun at my hight. And I figure that he is joking about having mystical kung fu powers. I met a lot of drunks that thought they had mystical kung fu powers.

So, I go to haul him out.

I can't lie. He kicked the crap out of me. I mean, he actually kicked the crap out of me. He's faster than any other human being than I had ever seen. His feet are all over the place. He's kicking me in the chest before I even had a chance to get in to a good defensive posture, and then he starts working my face over with his feet. He's actually tap dancing on my face. He broke my nose and fractured my jaw. He's slapping me around with his feet and he actually made me hurt... Which made me cross the line between rage and insanity. In between the flurry of blows, I notice he has a flustered look on his face. (In between flashes of cowboy boot heels smashing in to my face) Once I crossed that line, I know he's hurting me still on some level, but I don't feel anything. So I go about trying to maul him. His legs must have got tired because he started punching me. I am still trying to desperately get a hold on him. Later, when I reflected on the fight, I realise, he must have looked worried or flustered because I did not go down or fall over when he was beating the stuffing out of me. I think it unnerved him. Anyhoo, I finally managed to get a grip on him. Grabbed by his wrist. He's back to kicking me upside the head again, this time with his knee somehow, because we are so close. At this point, my head feels like it's about 20 feet above my shoulders, and I was starting to wonder how many more blows I could take. So I had to end it right then and there. I had one hand around his wrist already, so I get the other around his elbow. And I snapped his forearm down over my knee like I was snapping kindling. The moment his arm snapped in to two pieces, all of the fight left him and he's on the ground howling. The police arrive a little while later. I had to go to the hospital. Hairline fracture in my jaw in several places, fractured spot under my eye socket, broken nose, several broken ribs, a broken collarbone, a cracked sternum, I was busted up real bad. He had a wonderful compound fracture in his arm.

So my question is... As an instructor, how would you instruct your students to deal with a combatant like my self? Say, in a forced combat situation? How do you bring a monster down? What do you do in a situation like that?

I ask because I am curious. He became quite unnerved when his training seemed to fail him. Whatever level of degree he was as a black belt did not seem to offer much combat experience with a foe that survived the first flurry of blows. You could see it in his face and how he fought. After the first few measured well placed blows, everything else was desperation. Panic. He started getting tired and couldn't hit as hard, or as often.

The fight really stands out in my mind because I learned so much from it, but the views of the other side remain foggy and I hope you can shed some light on it, or some insight on how you would train your students to deal with it, or how you would deal with it your self.

Many thanks in advance. This is important, as your answers may very well fill in the blanks in an empty spot in my combat philosophy.

[bubba]

First thing that comes to mind is since he was a trained martial artist he should have been charged and tried for assault with a deadly weapon.

[Dreadbelly]

There was all kinds of charges pressed on that guy.

But that does not answer my question. It has lingered in my mind and I long to know the answer.

[Archangel]

Dread: I've sent you a pm but for the others, a lot is summed up in the movie The Power of One, the book Book of Five Rings, and the 6th UFC video. I'm willing to put the answer here if others ask.

Bubba: as far as I know, that particular charge is a myth. I believe New York state has something along those lines but it's not that. Certainly, the skill factor can be brought up in court. The police can use it to lay a charge of aggravated assault rather than assault or assault with the defence of self-defence.

We are off-topic here in the music thread but (to the mods) I think there is a value in discussing these issues. It seems most of us in kilts have an active conscience and it's good to ask questions before the crisis. I've heard more than one person say they think a place is safer when there is a man in a kilt there. Weird, but true. (any input from the mods on how this is progressing?)

[Kilted Stuart]

I wouldn't want to mess with my Sensei either but he would be the last person to assert himself in that way. Some people learn the art without learning self control. You also learn to avoid than to be agressive. Some people can't do that no matter how there trained. It is a shame that people trained need to assert themselves to prove there skill to anyone who'll watch. What I learn is left at the dojo, competition or demo. If I need to defend myself, I can. If I was ever the aggressor and my Sensei found out, I would loose the privledge of learning from him.

The real art is in avoidance and if that doen't work, use as little force as possible to get out of the situation or to defend yourself. Archangel used as little force as nessary to diffuse the situation. If he didn't he would have been outside of the place like the other guy. If you turn on the guy and beat him to a pulp your now no better a person than him.

[Dreadbelly]

I am in the process now of recompiling all my views, thoughts, and philosophies on violence.

Been thinking about it a great deal.

If my views change, I am unsure if I will be able to change with them. There are entirely to many people dumb enough to try and take a piece of me for me to even try to become a pacifist.

A lot of thinking to do have I.

[Archangel]

I am in the process now of recompiling all my views, thoughts, and philosophies on violence.

Been thinking about it a great deal.

If my views change, I am unsure if I will be able to change with them. There are entirely to many people dumb enough to try and take a piece of me for me to even try to become a pacifist.

A lot of thinking to do have I.

A lot of it comes back to the sheepdog thing. A sheepdog is a working dog. You want/train/teach a dog to be be at its most controlled when it is excited. Selah. Peace.

[Archangel]

Just got back from the Mudmen concert. They rocked! Good loud pipes rocking away, terrific crowd interaction. These guys are developing a hard-core fan following. There was a couple of cute girls there, guys trying all the moves, but, hey, we came to watch the band. I had fun watching that action too. The band played a long set and had people from the audience up singing into the mic, including the singers from the previous band. Late night, but a good night. New album comes out Oct. 11, they'll be back to promote that.

BTW, re: last week's incident, I talked with the owner, he was quite upset and assured the character had been barred for ever. Talked with the bouncer tonight, thanked him, he said the guy was growling at him. No sign of any problem anywhere tonight, just a good fun time.