Crackdown urged over kilt cheats

[Angus MacSpey]

Now, let me take a stand that will be less popular: If Scottish manufacturers did not charge such outrageously high prices, imports would not be a problem.

Hopefully this won't ignite a flame war, but this touches on one of my pet peeves.

The Scottish manufacturers are NOT charging outrageously high prices. They are charging prices that are:

1) reflective of the cost of materials
2) reflective of the cost of labor
3) in line with the life-value of the product
4) taking into account the inflated (thus lower in value) currency many First World countries are suffering from (particularly the U.S.)

So you pay $500 for a kilt. For the average American, what percentage of a week's wages is that? For some, it may be 10%, for some maybe 100%. Even if that kilt costs you a week's wages, think about how long it lasts - its value to YOU.

And put yourself in the place of the kilt-maker hand-stitching your fine new kilt. Do you object to him or her making a decent enough living to feed their kids, pay their mortgage and taxes, health insurance, car payments, etc, etc, etc? If they make (profit) $300 from a two-day project, are they getting rich? How much money do YOU make?

No, the cheap-*** imports from Pakistan are outrageously UNDERPRICED. People in Third World countries, because of their costs of living, and exchange rates, can actually live on a couple dollars a day. At 10 dollars per day, they live like kings. But they don't get that much. They get barely enough to rise to the level of middle-class squalor.

So Ali Q. Hindu makes $5 to sew a kilt. Tell me if a Scot can do it for that.

This is the hidden evil of "free trade." They tell us that "free trade" makes things cheaper. Yeah, that's true. But an unemployed former factory worker can't buy jack.

***************

And on Wal-Mart - I vaguely remember when their truck fleet had "Made in America" on their trailers. Now, they say, "Low Prices. Always." I defy anyone to find an American-made product in a Wal-Mart today.

See the film, "American Jobs," directed by Greg Spotts. Real people lose real jobs so you can buy crap that lasts 1/4 as long for 3/4 the price.

People think I'm kidding about this. I'm still using American-made power tools my grandfather used. 50 years ago. My grandchildren will be able to use the same tools. My Porter-Cable circular saw, circa 1955. My Miller's Falls belt sander. No one under 60 has even heard of one. I promise nothing you can buy at Home Despot today will last that long.

[pulling hair out] I'd best get off my soap box for now. Sorry.

I have no quarrel with you if you buy cheap imports. Times are tough for a lot of us.

[cormacmacguardhe]

And on Wal-Mart - I vaguely remember when their truck fleet had "Made in America" on their trailers. Now, they say, "Low Prices. Always." I defy anyone to find an American-made product in a Wal-Mart today.

See the film, "American Jobs," directed by Greg Spotts. Real people lose real jobs so you can buy crap that lasts 1/4 as long for 3/4 the price.

People think I'm kidding about this. I'm still using American-made power tools my grandfather used. 50 years ago. My grandchildren will be able to use the same tools. My Porter-Cable circular saw, circa 1955. My Miller's Falls belt sander. No one under 60 has even heard of one. I promise nothing you can buy at Home Despot today will last that long.

[pulling hair out] I'd best get off my soap box for now. Sorry.

I have no quarrel with you if you buy cheap imports. Times are tough for a lot of us.

This is the soap box I was not going to get on, but I agree whole heartedly. If these jobs keep going overseas pretty soon there will be no one on this side of the ocean who can afford even the cheap (not just in price) items. I also have tools that my grandfather and father both used, and I will pass them on to my children. Not something I could do with the "made in china" crap we have available today.

[Cawdorian]

Angus,

You are not alone, this 65 year old still has working Porter Cable power tools purchased back in the early 60's. They were really great tools, my dad wouldn't purchase any other brand for his employees to use. You could take a Porter Cable saw, hold it down at your side and turn it on, they did not prroduce the torque roll action many of the other brands exhibited.

I am enjoying my Scottish tank, it was well worth every penny I paid for it. I get to wear the full kit again tomorrow night to the SAS Christmas Party. I am looking forward to it.

[Bob C]

Hopefully this won't ignite a flame war, but this touches on one of my pet peeves.

No flames from me. I say you're wrong, but you have every right to hold those opinions.

Scottish manufacturers DO charge for more than reasonable markup, because the market supports it. I do not blame them for getting what they can. I have a "tank" that I paid well over $500 for. I sure won't be buying many at prices like that. Most people won't buy any. It's not just the kilts, either - all the accessories are priced far over their actual value, too. Again, if the market allows them to get away with that, I don't begrudge them getting what they can.

The market only supports that because of snobbery, and the expectation that one must pay through the nose for kilts and accessories. If foreign manufacturers change that, making kilting more accessible to the masses, then I think that's great.


ADDENDUM: It occurs to me that I may seem to be picking on Scottish manufacturers, which was not my intent. The same principle applies to MANY marketed items. The example that comes quickest to my mind is I-Pods. They're no better than any other mp3 player, but they're WAY overpriced. People are paying for the name, rather than the function. It's their right to do so, but it's not very smart.

[macwilkin]

No flames from me. I say you're wrong, but you have every right to hold those opinions.

Scottish manufacturers DO charge for more than reasonable markup, because the market supports it. I do not blame them for getting what they can. I have a "tank" that I paid well over $500 for. I sure won't be buying many at prices like that. Most people won't buy any. It's not just the kilts, either - all the accessories are priced far over their actual value, too. Again, if the market allows them to get away with that, I don't begrudge them getting what they can.

The market only supports that because of snobbery, and the expectation that one must pay through the nose for kilts and accessories. If foreign manufacturers change that, making kilting more accessible to the masses, then I think that's great.

ADDENDUM: It occurs to me that I may seem to be picking on Scottish manufacturers, which was not my intent. The same principle applies to MANY marketed items. The example that comes quickest to my mind is I-Pods. They're no better than any other mp3 player, but they're WAY overpriced. People are paying for the name, rather than the function. It's their right to do so, but it's not very smart.

Bob -- the old maxim, "You get what you pay for" certainly applies here. I personally don't mind paying a little bit more for a good quality product from a long-established firm like William Chisholm, Kinloch Anderson, Hector Russell, etc. These people know their business, much like Brooks Brothers or TM Lewin knows theirs. Sometimes names do stand for quality, and I would rather patronize an old firm whose name does so to ensure that their craftsmanship is around for a while.

I do agree that accessory prices are a bit steep at times, but the key to owning a traditional kilt and all of the proper kit is to buy it gradually. Yes, I know folks today are always in a hurry and demand instant gratification, but the excitement and anticipation is half the fun. It took me 10 years to get to where I am in regarding to my "kilt kit", but I would have lost something had I rushed out and bought everything in one fell swoop. I learned that lesson the hard way in Civil War reenacting. When I first started in the hobby, I bought kit willy-nilly and as a consequence, had to replace shoddy gear quickly, not to mention updating the collection for authenticity standards. Research was (and still is) the key.

Cheers,

Todd

[MACKAY]

I was going to reply, but I outsource all my reply work to an off shore company in India, and I keep having problems with Quality Control. As soon as we get it fixed I'll be sure to post a reply.

Brian Mackay

[Jimmy Carbomb]

...and I would rather patronize an old firm whose name does so to ensure that their craftsmanship is around for a while.

An extremely important and valid point that often gets lost in the search for a low price. You can imitate the look, but you can't imitate the quality. Only time will expose the products that are inferior in manufacturing skill and base materials. It doesn't take long sometimes.

[possingk]

I was going to reply, but I outsource all my reply work to an off shore company in India, and I keep having problems with Quality Control. As soon as we get it fixed I'll be sure to post a reply.

Brian Mackay

The worst part about your statement is that it is true for a lot of companies. It is also a major reason that I work for the commonwealth.

To be on topic though I think it is great that Scotland is doing this it gives the kilt makers pride to put that tag on, much like I am sure it gives the local kilt maker here the pride to put the made in the USA label on thier kilts.

The one thing I will say is that I don't own a traditional eight yard kilt, and most likely won't for a long time. I know when I bought my SWK that it wasn't made in Scotland, or the USA, but I wanted a kilt to get me started. Now I am not really happy that it was made off shore, but at the time it was what I could afford. I will probably get a few more SWK's, but my goal is to have as many american made kilts as I do SWK's

[Mike n NC]

To get back to the kilt line of this thread... I have to disagree with the thought that people buy what they can afford. Not true, if it were family sedans wouldn't have passed the 30K mark and the credit card industry would not be blooming.

People buy what they want as evidenced by some of our members, saving, working extra hours, doing whatever to buy that "tank". When told that I would have to pay two, three, four or even five hundred dollars I don't even bat an eye. It may take a few days, weeks or maybe months to get up the funds but if that is what it takes, so be it.

Even as a young sailor I paid for quality in clothing, having been taught that I would get my worth out of it. Now on $79 a month it is a bit of a stretch to buy a good 2 or 3 piece suit but I did it. I can only remember buying 2 suits in my life that cost less than $500 so why would I complain about that price for a kilt? Am I going to pay that for a kilt/jacket or other parts that I wear every day, day in and day out and that may be damaged or destroyed? No more than I would wear one of my custom tailored suits in place of jeans.

Bottom line is that people will buy what they want, when they want it. It is becoming more and more incumbent on the cottage buisness to keep prices down and that business here, what with the larger companies outsourcing as they are.

I'm going to buy what I want based on what I want it for but should I end up with a "made in Scotland" product that I find to be produced elsewhere, look out. I want the truth about what is in it and where it came from.

Parting shot. To the kilted Harley Davidson fanatics, I'm one too...love'em, how do you like your Japanese motorcycle? Made in Japan, about 90% of the parts, and assembled in America. Even the engines use workings made overseas.

Mike

[motorman4life]

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