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28th March 06, 05:46 AM
#1
My situation is different. I actually would choose to not wear a kilt at work.
But for court...that is different. I have thought about it, but I decided not to for two reasons:
1. The administration will start a new policy of only allowing officers to wear uniforms to court. Now that may not seem too bad, but to put on a uniform takes about 3 times as long as a sweater and slacks. And many of the night shifts guys (like myself) want to get up as late as possible, and get back to bed as soon as possible.
2. The people I see at court usually don't have the same maturity and intellect of the general public. So, when I see them again on the street, and I always do, I think that I would be the target of jokes, loud mouths, and drunks. Not that I care, but it is difficult to work a case when you are interrupted about questions about your "dress."
But, I do make it a point to show off new kilts to the office staff on my days off, and even my chief could only say one thing "You look like a real swinger."
I wear a kilt when ever it is appropriate to off duty functions. If I am not on the clock, little they can say.
In your situation, I would say this.....go to the commitee, maybe with a few pictures, and find out why they would say no. Document, document, document. Maybe tape record the session if minutes are not taken. Then, when the time is right, use a snipet to remind them of the decision. Respectfully. Ahear to what they have to say. I would not suggest a lawsuit while you still work there.
A supervisor of mine one told me I'm not "paid to see the big picture." So, when I screw up, even when I really should have known better, I remind him of that statement. Again, respectfully.
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28th March 06, 06:10 AM
#2
My thoughts echo some already written. You have gone this far so follow through with the meeting. Stay calm and take a few seconds to gather thoughts before answering any questions. Present a good case for wearing the kilt. Explain that it is not a fashion statement, but an acceptable form of attire for men. Remind them that not too long ago it was not acceptable for women to wear slacks in the workplace. Be concise, be cordial and be a good example for the rest of us that may have to follow in your foot steps.
Good luck with your meeting.
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27th March 06, 08:03 PM
#3
I'd quote you, but there isn't enough room on the forum (heh)
all joking aside, I did something similar with my employer.
I asked my direct magement if kilts were accepted at work, and got no response. Being a global company, I didn't think it would be a problem. THen again, being a company that is known for lay-offs, I figured I'd ask. I posed the question to the sender of one of those "donate $1 to united way and you can wear jeans" e-mails (oh, I work for a VERY large global computer services outsourcing company).
Three days after I sent the email, I recieved an e-mail from the original recipeint's boss, quoting the dress code. OF course, the dress code makes no mention of kilts or anything like it. I responded quickly, stating I knew the dress code. I commented that it made no mention of kilts, and went on a poetic tear about how the company espouses multi-culturalism and diversity, and other such mangerial buzzwords. Based on these goals of the company, I stated that I figured it would not be a problem, but I would ask first.
A week later I recieved an e-mail from the global executive vice president of human resources. It was possibly the most well-written e-mail I had read in a long time, but it said nothing more that "we know everything you said is true, but we aren't going to say yes or no. There are appropriate times for everything and we are sure we can accomodate your needs. But first, ask you boss."
I asked my boss later that day, she said no.
Good thing is, I've got my own company started, and hopefully won't be working for anyone else before too long.
After all that, I say stick to you guns, as long as you don't get fired ( unless you want to be). I am sure that the ACLU and an army of people will be behind you if something does happen, so it is completly up to you.
Good luck!
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27th March 06, 09:52 PM
#4
Reggie,
Sad situation. Here's how Jerry Griffin handled it a long time ago.
http://www.utilikilts.com/newsletters/2004-11/ Go down to the pic of the guy hunting kilted.
Don't know your heritage, if they've committed a cultural insult or not.
I'm fortunate to work for a mental health agency who's only dress code is, "Don't make us write up a dress code." Been kilted at work daily for nearly 8 months now.
Also, don't know what state you're in. Here in Arizona an employer can terminate anyone at any time with or without cause.
Don't know how large a city you're in, if there are similar, but more open, competitors to your company.
I do know that should I decide to change employers I will interview kilted since there's no way I'd want to work for anyone who wouldn't accept me kilted at work.
Who Moved My Cheese? Time to reread that book if you haven't already.
Ron
Ol' Macdonald himself, a proud son of Skye and Cape Breton Island
Lifetime Member STA. Two time winner of Utilikiltarian of the Month.
"I'll have a kilt please, a nice hand sewn tartan, 16 ounce Strome. Oh, and a sporran on the side, with a strap please."
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28th March 06, 08:30 AM
#5
 Originally Posted by Riverkilt
Who Moved My Cheese? Time to reread that book if you haven't already.
Ron
Excellent book! I've got a copy of it here on my desk!
I highly suggest anyone dealing with change of any kind read this book..amazing insights in a book that will take no more than two hours to read.
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28th March 06, 10:15 AM
#6
Sure are a lot of opinions issued without first gathering the facts. Shame on all of you, I cannot be the only employer here.
We can discren that you are in the midwest, please read conservative.
We don't know what you do, who you interact with, what industry you are in,
yet we are to help you decide what to wear to the job, impossible.
I used to wear blue jeans and cowboy boots to work, but I was riding bulls. Sorry, a kilt would have been the wrong choice.
I have a new producer, he likes designor suits. I counciled him to go with a button down and tie, nice slacks at most when meeting with our trade contractors, his hit ratio went up immediatly. At this stage in his career, a kilt would kill his credibility with those clients.
I'm not saying no kilt, I'm just saying we don't have enough info.
David
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28th March 06, 10:58 AM
#7
Reggie asked for opinions. It is up to him to weigh them. My responses are made with the assumption that he is smart enough to know that any advice he gets here will have a pro-kilt bias, and may not be appropriate for his situation. Also, many people have emphasised that he should seek his wife's wisdom, and that is certainly good advice.
Give us all some credit, David.
Ron Stewart
'S e ar roghainn a th' ann - - - It is our choices
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28th March 06, 11:01 AM
#8
 Originally Posted by David Thornton
Sure are a lot of opinions issued without first gathering the facts. Shame on all of you, I cannot be the only employer here.
We can discren that you are in the midwest, please read conservative.
We don't know what you do, who you interact with, what industry you are in,
yet we are to help you decide what to wear to the job, impossible.
I used to wear blue jeans and cowboy boots to work, but I was riding bulls. Sorry, a kilt would have been the wrong choice.
I have a new producer, he likes designor suits. I counciled him to go with a button down and tie, nice slacks at most when meeting with our trade contractors, his hit ratio went up immediatly. At this stage in his career, a kilt would kill his credibility with those clients.
I'm not saying no kilt, I'm just saying we don't have enough info.
David
I'm not saying a kilt is a good choice for all jobs. I'm just saying that discrimination is against the law.
Virtus Ad Aethera Tendit
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28th March 06, 11:50 AM
#9
The committee should not be meeting to hear reasons from you why you want to wear a kilt. I should be meeting to determine if there are any objections to your wearing the kilt and whether those objections have any merit. A kilt is considered a formal, semi-formal, dress and casual item of men's clothing. Just because a supervisor doesn't like it is not a valid reason. Is he/she going to ban the wearing of colors that he/she dislikes?
But don't be surprised if you are turned down. If there is a committee you can bet they have already met and have had discussions on the subject and will have made up their minds before you walk into the room. Having you meet with the committee is a CYA move in case the discrimination issue arises.
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30th March 06, 12:40 AM
#10
Kilts in the workplace?
 Originally Posted by Reggie
It all started when I wore my SWK Nightstalker kilt to work on St. Patricks day with the blessing of my most immediate superior. I got quite a few positive responses, and said that I might wear another kilt on one of our "casual Fridays". It should be mentioned that my immediate superior is "kilt friendly" and said that since the dress code does not specifically mention kilts, that as far as she was concerned, wearing the kilt on "casual Friday" was ok, if I was professional about it.
I have a multi-tiered level of superiors that I work for, in a professional medical setting, and work with the public. My "chain of command" is really somewhat confusing, and difficult to explain, but I am required to please each one governing different areas of my profession.
One of my other superiors approached me on Monday and said that I was not to wear a kilt anymore, at any time. This launched us into a rather protracted, and marginally tense, discussion concerning the matter, with the bottom line being that I believe a kilt to be a mans garment, not unprofessional, and I felt that the double standard of allowing women to wear trousers or skirts, and men being only allowed to wear trousers was discriminatory. Of couse, the same old tired line of "in our culture" and "you can wear kilts in your off time" were offered as excuses and/or reasons. Exasperated, she said that she would set up a meeting for me to discuss this with the committee members that decide these issues if I wanted to take it that far. I said that I would appreciate that, and the meeting has been set for Friday afternoon. Until then, I must obey the dress code, and not wear any kilts.
I discussed this with my wife, whom I admire and respect as the best advisor, help mate, and friend that I could ever have been blessed with. She thinks that I have taken things to far. That I am running the risk of being percieved as unhappy, disgruntled, or at best, a trouble maker, and should drop the issue. The world is not going to change overnite according to my whims, and the fact that I wear kilts everywhere I go is a statement in and of itself that should suffice for now. Basically, it's too much, too soon for our society right now. I should mention that she has always been supportive of my kilt wearing, and she's never been shy about being with me in a kilt.
Since then, a committee meeting has been going on in my head almost non-stop. I think about the struggle for the womens vote, the courage of the few women who disobeyed cultural rules and wore trousers in public for the first time. I am old enough to remember the fight to be able grow long hair, the resistance to that change that we, as men, went through. I think about how I went overseas to fight in a war to defend our freedom, and that Ghandi said, "Be the change that you want to see in the world". I think of the freedoms that women are allowed in society, denied to men, and the dwindling all male societies that have fallen by the wayside because of female opposition. I wonder about my own courage, and how far I'm willing to take this, and also my obligation to provide an income for my family.
I have to agree with her that I am running a risk with my employer. Although I am a technical expert in my field, in short supply at this time, I remember what my Dad always said that "The graveyards are filled with men who believed that they could not be replaced".
Am I going to far with this? Am I cutting off my nose to spite my face? Is it too much too soon? Am I a stupid ***, living in my mind in some parallel universe? Why can't I just let this go? It's the principle of the thing, isn't it?
I will be checking back to this thread over the next few days for advice from this great kilted community, and going over past posts on this subject. Any advice given shall be deeply appreciated.
Highest regards,
Reggie
Reggie,
Egads, I empathise with you. I work for a major mid-line clothing retail chain (Kohl's) and inasmuch as I'm a checkout guru at my store, I think that if I showed up one day in my MacNicol Hunting Modern, the managers would faint (or possibly worse!). No, I wouldn't "just do it". If I wanted to wear it, even on April 6, I'd give some SERIOUS thought to advance notice with as much "education" about my heritage as I can and hope that they'd consider it, given National Tartan Day as the raison d'etre. I AM going to wear my tank to my weekly pipe smoking club's pot luck supper, though. That's going to garner some serious attention and discussion ffrom my pals. Might even get some of the gang interested, who knows?
Good Luck to you, anyway. Always be a gentleman about it. It's the education about kilts and their heritage that'll always make THE difference.
Sandy
Nothing is worn under the kilt...everything works just fine!!
Alexander Nicoll Gerli (Sandy)
Clan MacNicol (MacNeacail)
Mount Airy, NC, MAYBERRY USA!
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