St. Andrew's Day

[efer]

Happy St. Andrews Day to all!


TB,
have you thought about getting a tartan vest that you could wear at work? Before I got my first kilt I got a tartan vest, I love to wear vests.
It was another thoughtful gift from my wife

Cheers,

[sav]

Happy St. Andrews Day!
Alba Gu Brath!
I'll be wearing my Scottish National tank I got last year from Matt Newsome...

[Andrewson]

To St. Andrew and Scotland yet!

For your perusal, an interesting link from the City of Edinburgh's web site:

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/librarie.../standrew.html

And one more:

http://www.st-andrew.org.uk/flagtrust.htm

Todd

Thanks for that Todd. I have been sporting my clan tartan all day today (Forsyth 8yd tank) but I got caught out by a question from a friend - "So why is St Andrew the patron saint of Scotland?" Came back to do some hurried research and found those pages useful.

It is interesting that the links between Scotland and the Saint are so tenuous (not that I'd describe the town of St Andrews as anything but substantial). But then Russia does not seem to have any better claim. At least St Andrew appears to have visited Greece, and maybe Romania. Has anybody got a good explanation why this particular saint was adopted by Scotland?

[macwilkin]

Thanks for that Todd. I have been sporting my clan tartan all day today (Forsyth 8yd tank) but I got caught out by a question from a friend - "So why is St Andrew the patron saint of Scotland?" Came back to do some hurried research and found those pages useful.

It is interesting that the links between Scotland and the Saint are so tenuous (not that I'd describe the town of St Andrews as anything but substantial). But then Russia does not seem to have any better claim. At least St Andrew appears to have visited Greece, and maybe Romania. Has anybody got a good explanation why this particular saint was adopted by Scotland?

See this paragraph in the above link:

One legend says that a man who later became St. Regulus (or Rule) carried the bones of St. Andrew to Scotland. His ship was wrecked on the Fife coast, and the spot at which the ship landed became the site of the town of St. Andrews. A cathedral was built there which was started in 1160 and took 158 years to build (the ruins can still be seen today) and the town became an important site of Christian pilgrimage.

St. Andrew was also adopted as patron of the Scots because of this legend:

Again there are different legends surrounding the use of the Saltire as Scotland's flag. Some people say that Angus dreamt one night that St. Andrew appeared to him and promised him a great victory. Angus was about to fight a battle with another king from the North of England, and this dream made him believe that the Scots would win. On the day of the battle a white cross appeared in the sky and Angus did win - this is why the flag of Scotland is sky blue with a white cross. The battle was at a place called Athelstaneford in the year 831.

And that's the rest of the story...

T.

[jiminak]

A tad late I ken, but Happy St. Andrew's Day to you all!

Jim

[Pour1Malt]

ai'd bae happier wi' Saint Glenfarclas arr Saint Lagavulin....


ah weel....

[starbkjrus]

Happy St. Andrew's Day all. What everyone else said.

[O'Neille]

Happy St. Andrew's Day. I wore my Regimental Gordon Today w/ an Aran sweater. We had our first freeze last night and I woke up to 20 F. All of my patients were pleased to see their Dr. Kilted and I'm happy too. O'Neille

[McClef]

The posession of the bones of a saint was always good for the local economy

St Regulus has his memorial in the Royal Burgh of St Andrews in the tower named after him in the ruined cathedral and also the hall of residence (where I spent 4 years).

It's well worth a visit and not just for the golf!

[An t-Ileach]

I think that in the origins of St Andrew and the Saltire there are a number of things all conflated.

The story of the saltire in the sky seen by Oengus before Athelstanesford seems to have remarkable similarities with the story of Constantine and a similar phenomenon before the Battle of the Milvian Bridge (in hoc signo vinces) that ended up with him adopting the Chi-Rho as his badge.

There's the possibility that Andrew (Aindrea in Gaelic) might indicate the male correspondence of the same Celtic divinity that Boadicea sacrificed the Roman women of Colchester to (Andrasta - Andrastos): i.e. 'Victory'. It wouldn't be the first pre-Christian divinity that found its way into Christian Scotland: one thinks of St Bride, for example.

And I'm not sure whether the Scots of Dal Riada, would have been too impressed by a Pictish story whether from Fib or Fortrenn.

The Scots, pre-Christian, had been "sun worshippers" (i.e. Lugh Lamfada), using the sun colours red and gold, and the lion device (hence the Red Lion arms), or might it actually be the Lynx as the word is close to the Greek lungks (transliterated) meaning "light" and the Celts were big on correspondences. The Picts, apparently, had been "moon worshippers" which is supposed to account for the prevelance of blue and silver/white in eastern Scottish devices (such as with the Murrays).

My guess is that Kenneth Mac Alpine - supposedly a Scot, but I'd bet that he came from the Brythonic Strathclyde area (Alpin isn't a Scot name, but a Welsh one) - when he was proclaimed the King of the Picts and the Scots adopted the Pictish saltire with its narrative as a unifying move (he also palmed a fake "Stone of Destiny" off on the Picts of Fib, which became the Stone of Scone: the actual fragment of the Tara Stone is supposedly still at Loch Finlaggan on Islay).

No matter; the Scots of whatever origins nowadays keep the Saltire and St Andrew as their flag and patron saint, and rally around them.