Navajo Women

[macwilkin]

Chief Chinnube MacIntosh, one of the designers of the Tulsa District Tartan, also dresses this way for Highland Games in this atea.

If I remember right, Waldo MacIntosh wore that outfit at a gathering of the Clan in Scotland in the 1960's.

Cheers,

Todd

[Freedomlover]

Back in the 70's a McIntosh was a chief of the Cherokee Nation. Those McIntoshes really got around. Even had something to do with apple trees.

[AtagahiKC]

I thought you handled it well.

I think she was just concerned in general over something that didn't fit into her cultural paradigm. You don't know enough about her to even be able to judge whether her concern was something in traditional Navajo cultural mores or if it was based on her non-Navajo religious beliefs.

I'm a member of the Cherokee Nation and went to school at ASU. I have worked with quite a few tribes on various issues.

I found that there are always those who criticize in any society. Then there are those who give you the thumbs up.

You shouldn't generalize her comment as the official Navajo policy. No matter who she is, she can't speak for all Navajo any more than I can speak for all Cherokees.

My practice is to rarely listen to unsolicited criticism, but I always listen to positive comments. I only take the criticism of those who know and love me and who I can trust.

[ranchergal8]

I thought you handled it well.
I think she was just concerned in general over something that didn't fit into her cultural paradigm. You don't know enough about her to even be able to judge whether her concern was something in traditional Navajo cultural mores or if it was based on her non-Navajo religious beliefs.
I'm a member of the Cherokee Nation and went to school at ASU. I have worked with quite a few tribes on various issues.
I found that there are always those who criticize in any society. Then there are those who give you the thumbs up.
You shouldn't generalize her comment as the official Navajo policy. No matter who she is, she can't speak for all Navajo any more than I can speak for all Cherokees. My practice is to rarely listen to unsolicited criticism, but I always listen to positive comments. I only take the criticism of those who know and love me and who I can trust.

Hey ya. What's with the "non-Navajo religious beliefs" making assumptions even though you were schooled at ASU. What do you know about traditional Navajo cultural mores? Also keeping your ears closed makes conversations limited. So does that mean if your family members speaks with you - you don't listen? The original poster / forum are good folks keeping the connections. Where do you get off at telling people what to do?

[macwilkin]

Just as a "gentle-reminder": let's try to keep the thread "on-topic" with the subject of "kilts" as much as possible, please.

Regards,

Todd

[Riverkilt]

Thanks Rancher Girl,

Obviously, being from Page I know that area well.

If you've not had a chance yet you might wanna check out my kilt photo gallery. Many of the pics were taken in that part of the Nation and you may enjoy seeing the home country.

One of my first kilted outings was with my then Navajo girlfriend for her hospital Christmas party and my agency Christmas party a few years ago.

My current lady used to work in Tuba and I spent a lot of time around town. Now she's working in Hopi so its not unusual to drive there by way of the Tonalea/Red Lake/Blue Canyon area on Navajo 7. There are definately some Navajo 7 kilt pics in the gallery.

Our other way is up and over Black Mesa. Don't remember if I have any kilt pics from up there.

Last weekend we both were in Kayenta and Monument Valley for the opening of Milepost 398 by Sheephead films. We met up at Navajo National Monument. I drove over by the backroad from Shonto. I posted some kilted pics on the show me your pics forum of this board - taken at the Bitatakin overlook and in Monument Valley.

I was kilted for the premier held at Monument Valley H.S. in Kayenta. And met the Navajo gentleman who told me he owned a kilt.

So, guessing you're "urban" for now? Currently reading The Coming of Elijah about the Navajo child placement with LDS families. My Navajo girlfriend experienced that and encouraged me to read it.

Hey, with all the Scot sir names on the Rez, Navajos I've met with Scottish ancestors, and towns like Cameron, maybe the Navajo Nation could commission a Navajo Nation tartan....

Okay sorry, billaganna thinking...

Ron

[ranchergal8]

Thanks Rancher Girl,
If you've not had a chance yet you might wanna check out my kilt photo gallery.
Hey, with all the Scot sir names on the Rez, Navajos I've met with Scottish ancestors, and towns like Cameron, maybe the Navajo Nation could commission a Navajo Nation tartan....Okay sorry, billaganna thinking... Ron

Yes, I saw the gallery - you're quite the model. Nice kilts and so many patterns, they're pretty cool. Glad to hear that you are around and reading stuff. I think that's what life is about - live it!
On the tartan design, I see some and am quite impressed with the colors. Not a bad idea - design a NN tartan. I find Navajos to be quite receptive to ideas esp. re: design. Well, you never know.

[AtagahiKC]

Ranchergal17 wrote: Hey ya. What's with the "non-Navajo religious beliefs" making assumptions even though you were schooled at ASU. What do you know about traditional Navajo cultural mores? Also keeping your ears closed makes conversations limited. So does that mean if your family members speaks with you - you don't listen? The original poster / forum are good folks keeping the connections. Where do you get off at telling people what to do?

What assumptions? I know many Navajo who were members of Christian and even Fundamentalist churches. That is what I meant by "non-Navajo religious beliefs", as opposed to Navajo religious beliefs.

If you read my post carefully, my point was that one doesn't know from what perspective the woman was making her comment. It could be traditional Navajo beliefs causing the discomfort or it could have been Christian beliefs causing the discomfort. Either way, it really didn't matter.

I was not implying that I know Navajo beliefs - simply that one doesn't have to know them nor does one have to take the criticism to heart. It just is not important if one is passing through. In other words, she did not have standing to correct him as he was not from her tribe. Her influence did not extend to him.

If one is trying to forge a relationship with Navajos, then by all means, take the criticism to heart and ask questions to learn. But this woman did not know Riverkilt nor did he know her.

If someone is moved to comment to a stranger in a diner who is not from around the area and try to force her mores on that person, then I do not believe that is appropriate nor courteous behavior. Had he been flashing someone, then it would have been appropriate to say something. But that was not the case, here.

As for listening to my family, of course I do. My family and clan care about me and understand me. They have the privilege of criticising me and I listen. Likewise, my close friends. But the privilege is something that should not be handed out lightly. So I keep it for only those who I trust and care about. However, including that made for a long post. I was trying to be succinct.

While I do not pretend to know Navajo beliefs, I do know Cherokee teachings about how to treat other human beings. We should not expect any person to act a certain way. If we are disappointed in the actions of another, we have to realize that the person is simply being who that person is. The disappointment comes from our unrealistic expectations of the other person, so the correction must come from within, not from without. Besides, if we have taken our eyes from our path to criticize what someone else is doing, we've just strayed off the path and away from Grandfather.

As for keeping my ears closed, if a stranger criticizes me, it is my choice as to how it affects me and how I will react. So yes, in that situation I will not listen to the person. It is very rare that such rudeness is going to turn into a wonderful friendship. It would be wrong of me to expect that person to ever be anything but rude. Why fill my life with rude and offensive people? It will only distract me from my path.

Finally, as for "telling other people what to do", I don't think that I told anyone what to do. Without adequate knowledge of a culture and its mores, it is a bad idea to take one conversation and extrapolate that into an official policy of an entire culture.

Even from a practical standpoint, was what she did the best way to have handled it? What if the person would have been from Scotland? Would she have wanted them to think that all Navajo were so rude? We both know that people form erroneous impressions of our cultures based on bad experiences.

You may be good people. I don't know you. But I would ask that instead of judging me from one posting, that you take the time to get to know me before passing judgment on me.

We are both Aniyunwiya. It should have been a common bond, not a source of prejudice and judgment. And even though you didn't ask, my people are from Big Cabin, Vinita and Pumpkin Holler.

[Mike1]

For the second time, let's move this one back to the subject of wearing kilts, else we're going to lock it down and remove it.

Some of the side discussion is proving to be very interesting, but it really has no place here.

[AtagahiKC]

I respectfully disagree. This post is about negotiating the difficult terrain of wearing a kilt and how to handle the reactions of another culture. Just because it contains information about Navajo culture and other Indian cultures doesn't make it any less pertinent or useful than discussing how to negotiate reactions from any other culture. The principles are the same, even if the cultures are different from Western paradigms.

While Ranchergal8 and I are having an "intertribal disagreement", we will be fine. I have no problem continuing that discussion by email, should she wish to do so. My email is atagahikc@yahoo.com.