Where's your Bagpipes?

[Warhoover]

Pipendrumsnun, my pipe instructor, who is also our pipe major, plays Dunbar Poly pipes. He has 2 sets actually, a set of P1's with hemped tenons and a set of P3's that he plays in performance. He loans the set of P1's to students to get them going while they are waiting on their pipes. The great thing about the Dunbar polys is that they are quite durable and not subject to some of the problems that AB sets can experience if not taken care of properly. Blackwood is not as forgiving as the polys when it comes to being in a hot car, or banging them coming through doors and the like. I was about to pull the trigger on a set of P3's myself when a sweet deal on a set of McCallums's presented itself. My instructor does recommend getting the P1's with hemped joints versus the O ring joints because it makes it easier to tune. You can get smaller adjustments with the hemp it seems. I guess its subjective, but it makes sense. By the way they do sound good.

By the way I am 42, and I am progressing quite well, according to my instructor. Sure, I will never be a award winning piper but several members of my band have encouraged me to compete after I get some more experience under my belt as it were. The basic premise of this is that, competeing makes you a better piper. Sure I may not get beyond Grade 5 or 4, so what! The critque that you get from the judges helps you to fine tune your mechanics and technique, beyond what your instructors input is. Critique from an outside source is always a good thing. Its like recording yourself and listening to the playback for your mistakes, only the critique is from someone that doesnt hear you play all the time and is knowledgeable. Sure winning something is all nice and good, we all have a competative nature, but I would enjoy just doing it to better myself.

We have a gentleman that is 75 that is just starting out on the chanter and he is doing great!!

All I can say its been a heck of a ride, and I love it. I started out to learn the pipes when I was 16 and due to a career in the Navy and other of lifes little tangents and starting a family, I just never followed through with it. Now I am finally fulfilling my dream. I say to anyone interested or wanting to pick it back up , go for it!!! I wish I had continued when I first started. Pipe's UP!!!

[cajuncelt]

The "impartial" point is this. It has NOTHING to do with an axe to grind and everything to do with knowledge from people who actually play as you put it. "Far-Eastern" pipes are made with inferior material, period. The stresses put on the wood and joints that result from humidity/temperature differences will destroy an inferior set of pipes relatively quickly. The modifications you speak of relate to reed and chanter not pipe modifications. Looks like you have already received plenty of "qualified" opinions, but will probably join the countless clueless crew who believe you found a better cheaper way. You seem to feel there are axes to grind and some ridiculous "us vs. them" issues being sat on. It's experience, both personally and seeing countless others like yourself waste time and money only to see cracks and warping as a result. I say go for it. You seem to have found the only "Far-Eastern" pipe manufacturer in the world that makes pipes from material that doesn't go to crap quickly. Another one lost in the woods...

I'm just curious about hearing from someone who plays the pipes AND doesn't have an axe to grind in this "Far Eastern versus the 'Real Thing'" discussion AND who has actually tried the FC pipes. Judging by the photos on the FC website, they're selling what looks like the same stuff that other internet dealers...I would expect that it's possible, though, that someone over there might be working up to the tolerances necessary for a set of those pipes to be considered "playable" but not necessarily "excellent".

From what I heard over the past weekend at the Highland Games, even the name-brand pipes end up needing modifications to suit the individual player and to fit in with a band's sound. We've heard that someone in the forum did get a set of the "Far-Eastern" pipes "playable" after a certain amount of re-adjusting and part substitutions.

I'm not trying to be pro or con on this topic but I would like to see someone who's a qualified player give an impartial opinion once and for all...

Best

AA

[highlander_Daz]

Ive a set of eastern pipes and Eventually got them to work with a Warmac chanter and some Souter reeds, however I had to saw the tenor drones shorter in order to get them to tune and even then they had no tone, the chanter that came with them was so far out you wouldnt believe.

My own set were made by Colin Winstanley (how invented the universal blowpipe) african blackwood very good

[Deasan]

The John Walsh shuttlepipes and smallpipes are a fun, quiet way to practice and get back into piping again. I like my Gibson firesides too. I also agree about the McCallum pipes. They are good pipes. Avoid the cheap garbage! Many's the junky set that have ruined an aspiring piper and diminished the good times our art offers.

Good luck and have fun re-discovering the wonderful music of the pipes.

Slainte mhath, Deasan

http://www.johnwalshbagpipes.com/car...ategory_id=279

[Macman]

I don't think you can go wrong with McCallums or Naills. Mine are McCallums and I love them. Like cajuncelt says, the AB0's are good value.

[Archangel]

My Gretsch, brand new Brian Setzer Hot Rod, was an ebay deal at $US1100. I'm surprised that pipes would be much different than that.

[PiobBear]

I'm just curious about hearing from someone who plays the pipes AND doesn't have an axe to grind in this "Far Eastern versus the 'Real Thing'" discussion AND who has actually tried the FC pipes. Judging by the photos on the FC website, they're selling what looks like the same stuff that other internet dealers...

I have no axe to grind with FC per se, and while I haven't tried their particular brand of $135.00 bagpipes, I have seen, fiddled with, and tried to make play enough EBay sticks (you're right; the do bear a remarkable similarity) to have formed what I would consider to be a well-informed opinion. It's been my first-hand, real-life experience that most of these are not "playable", and most of these never will be. Just because you can make a sound similar to a car horn with them doesn't mean that you can make music with them, and that's what they're marketed as; musical instruments. I've also seen more than enough frustrated and disappointed newbies who'd been taken in by the promises of unscrupulous merchants and duped into buying "beginner" sets that will never, ever meet their expectations and are really only suitable for nailing up to a pub wall to have formed what I consider a pretty well-informed opinion of merchants who make such promises.

even the name-brand pipes end up needing modifications to suit the individual player and to fit in with a band's sound. We've heard that someone in the forum did get a set of the "Far-Eastern" pipes "playable" after a certain amount of re-adjusting and part substitutions.

If you buy a set of pipes from either the manufacturer or a reputable dealer, you should be able to assemble, tune, and play them within minutes of opening the box. If there's anything even slightly off, a reputable manufacturer will trip over himself to set it right as quickly as possible. Most people who get Pakistani pipes to play end up replacing the bag, drone reeds, chanter reeds, and chanter, (re-tying in bags, re-hemping joints, replacing blowstick valves, often blowsticks as well...ad infinitum) not to suit their individual tastes or to match their band's sound, but just to get them to play at all. Generally, when they're done they end up with a sub-standard instrument that has an odd tone, is unsteady and difficult to tune, and cost about as much as a second-hand set of decent pipes would have in the first place; a truly false economy.

I wonder how many of these experts on Frugal Corner pipes have ever tried a set.

I've handled about a dozen different sets of Pakistani bagpipes, as well as Shepherds, Hardies, Lawries, Hendersons, Dunfions, Dunbars, and Naills (again; this isn't comparing apples and oranges; they're all bagpipes, and all alleging to be musical instruments). How many Pakistani pipes (or any others) have you played?

I've been looking at McCallum and Naill pipes...

I've played them both, side-by-side, with the same chanter and drone reeds. Naill might edge McCallum in tone, but in my opinion the difference wasn't so great as to justify the hundreds of dollars in price difference. For me, McCallum offered the most pipe for my money; YMMV. You really can't go wrong with either one (I play an older Naill blackwood chanter with my McCallum drones).

Well, blackwood aficionados may disagree with me, but, may I suggest the Dunbar P1 pipes? That is what I have and they are really very nice (and, they are much less expensive than blackwood, AND, as an added bonus, they are very durable and don not require as much to maintain 'em!).

Dunbars are fine pipes; Jack Dunbar was a turner for Henderson before WW II, after which he immigrated to Canada and pioneered the use of plastics in bagpipes. Personally I'd go with the P2 or P3; the tone's the same, but I simply find them more aesthetically pleasing. I wasn't aware they still made O-ring joints (a Dunbar idiosyncrasy), but yes; get the hemp joints instead.

Don't get too concerned over blackwood pipes; keep in mind that they've been played on battlefields around the world for hundreds of years in less-than-ideal conditions. Personally, I don't believe that 99 out of 100 experienced pipers can't tell the difference between a properly set up set of polypenco P2's and a set of AB2's (Dunbars blackwood set) at ten paces. I have heard from poly players that you might need to be a little more aggressive with your moisture control compared to blackwood pipes.

By the way...I hear that you are NEVER too old to learn! Especially if you are playing for enjoyment (your own and others)!

Absolutely. By all means, if you want to learn to play, learn to play. Often older folks have the focus and discipline to do what they couldn't do well as youngsters.

[Prester John]

Go with a used set of Dunbar P-1s.

My son has them (he's a much better piper than I, at age 13), and I'm picking up my set of polypenco pipes tonight.

PiobBear's comments above seem dead on regarding pakistani made pipes.

Perhaps, in order to help you make up your mind, you could listen to the differences via videos of bands on YouTube. I have seen and heard what were clearly ****-pipes played by bands in the Middle East (I think Jerusalem?) from there.

All in all, it is the sound you are after, and there are many different kinds of bagpipes, not all Great Highland Pipes.

Hey, I'm still new to the piping game, so that's just my two cents.

[Kiltedfirepiper]

Perhaps, in order to help you make up your mind, you could listen to the differences via videos of bands on YouTube. I have seen and heard what were clearly ****-pipes played by bands in the Middle East (I think Jerusalem?) from there.

there is a DVD series called instrument of war, and they have the Jordan pipe band playing on there.....yes they DO sound different, BUT thats because they TUNE their pipes different( to me they sounded REALLY flat)...I didnt really care for where they tuned to, but to each thier own.... also it didnt sound like they tuned to each other either. but that could have been due to the fact that it wasnt possible to tune to each other


I started with a pakistani set...for the $$ I spent on getting it playable ( mind you I DID get it playable) I could have bought a good set of ABW's
$475 for the pipes, + another 300 for bag, chanter, reeds, ect....as they say hindsight is 20/20

[wgority]

What PioBear has said pretty nicely mirrors my own thoughts on this matter. I'm not going to enter this discussion with more than a reference to my previous comments in the thread in the General Celtic Music Forum: http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=27718