Kilt Maker Disappointment

[ChattanCat]

I being a newbie kiltmaker, understand where she might be coming from. First of all the pleats are made for a right hander. If you reverse the pleats, you need a left hander. In old kiltmaker houses, it used to be required that you be right handed.

CC

[Tattoo Bradley]

I by no means would want velcro on a "traditional" wool kilt. But, the request certainly doesn't seem like such a big deal to me. "No sir, I don't make kilts that way." "Oh, well thanks anyway." And that's the end of it.

[Abax]

I wonder if what you're describing is related to a cultural difference.

It's a little different in the eastern U. S., but in my city, the oldest building is about 60 years old. There is no long history of tradition here. But I suspect that kilt makers in the U. S. are apt to be influenced by the traditions passed on by their teachers or by the culture from which kilts originate. Lots of old buildings and traditions over there.

In the United States, we are used to asking and expecting vendors to do things our way. Perhaps somebody from the U. K. can say if that same expectation exists over there (in general) or when dealing with kilt makers.

Abax

[Archangel]

FWIW, comparing the velcro fastening of my sportkilt to my traditional buckles: the velcro is usually easier but on my fat days (I'm working back down) it can take a couple of goes before the two sides are aligned; the strap is done. The velcro is stiffer and doesn't give when I lean into it: the traditional does.

My understanding is that the new Canadian Armed Forces kilts are velcro (on size fits all = cheaper) and the soldiers are not so keen on them.

I understand that you just wanted one section made velcro, again comparing to other clothes I have (Eddie Bauer wool sweater with velcro) the wool bits/pills/etc block up the velcro and it's a pain to clean. And it no longer holds.

You're right though, if you're paying, it's your choice. Her art, her choice. In a business, she should have explained why those might not be good ideas from either an "engineering" standpoint or her aesthetic sense. Then, while you may still be disappointed, you would not be holding it against her.

Better luck next time.

[CameronTaylor]

James, my only suggestion is (for tonight anyway) contact Steve at Freedom Kilts or any of the fine kiltmaker members here. I'm sure you'll find them accomdating and you'll be satified with your next kilt.
I've made my own as Alan H suggests, live 40 minutes from Sportkilt, and The Tartan Patch last time I checked is about 14 miles away(they're pricey but my Taylor tank is solid as Sears).
Tartan Patch is the only one that had me come in for measuring and such, Steve's guidelines at FK that are easy to follow and the fit is great - he's many miles north and across one international border (sort-of) away.
Good luck with your hunt.

CT - I think my point was they don't have to be close by but I may have missed it ...

[Phil]

Boy, do I envy you gents who live in Scotland

Take it from someone who lives in Scotland, Kiltmakers here by and large are just the same. There is only one way to make a kilt, their way, and take it or leave it. I suppose it is traditional but I like the sound of velcro instead of buckles, it must be more comfortable and flexible. Good luck anyway.

[cessna152towser]

I fully understand your disappointment, James, but I have to agree with Phil, that every kilt maker likes to make kilts to his or her own specification. Here in Scotland, I have bought traditional kilts from The Kilt Shop in Galashiels and from Tyne Tartans in Hawick. Each uses a different kiltmaker and I now know what to expect - a kilt from Galashiels will come with only one buckle on each side and if I want a kilt with a third buckle I should order from the Hawick shop.

[Howard Clark]

Ok, I am not a professional kilt maker, but I am a professional bladesmith. I make one style of stuff (Japanes style swords) at this point for money, period. Nothing else. I do not care what you want if it is outside that box. I will happily reccomend others more accomodating, but I am rigidly inflexible about what I make and how I do it. It is not up to the customer to tell me how to do what I do. I just simply say no.

Which is what said kilt maker at the strat of this thread did. Least amount of trouble for everyone, trust me.

If she "had" taken the order, and then become unhappy with the way it was going during the project, this can lead to a very unhappy cascade of events. I have seen it happen to crafts people of all stripe when they do not know how to say no.

A minor disspointment about a bit of wasted time is better than a huge wound over money and unhappy makers and customers of hand made goods. Life is too short for things like this.

Be glad she said no.

I am an amateur kilt maker, and just "how" amateur became abundantly clear when I got my kilt from Matt Newsome. I will never be that good. I do not have time to become that good at that skill, and it is quite a skill I must say. Other than "work kilts" to trash in the shop I am done fooling with it and buying from the pro's.

I am in hopes of being able to get one from Barb too at some point. I am hopelessly hooked at this point.

But back to the point. Being told no, is the least amount of trouble this kind of thing can be if the crafts person you wish to employ is not happy making the project you propose.

Be happy, spend your money somewhere else. And smile, it's good for your face.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

As someone who is not only a kilt maker, but a regualr wearer of kilts, who has also purchased from a number of other kilt makers, I think I can see both sides of the issue.

First of all, if you want a kilt that is made a certain way, or that is somewhat "outside the box," your instincts were right in going to an individual kilt maker. Usually, an individual kilt maker will have the ability to be more flexible than a shop who only retails other people's kilts. Plus you will actually get the chance to talk directly to the person who will be making the kilt, to explain just what it is that you want.

The first thing to consider is that this is your kilt and you should be able to get the kilt that you want. A good kilt maker will listen to your requests, and try to accomodate them as much as is possible.

BUT, that does not mean that the kilt maker needs to accomodate your every request. As Barb and Howard have both pointed out, sometimes the best answer is, "I'm sorry, but I can't do that." Let's face it -- you don't want a craftsman doing somethign that he or she is not comfortable with. You go to an individual craftsman because you are seeking their competence in their skill. A good craftsman will be competant enough to know what they can and cannot do.

Also, kilt makers will have their own idea of standards. Barb has already pointed this out. Do I really want to sew my label into a kilt that I don't think is "up to snuff?" I have periodically had potential clients approach me about making kilts from their own cloth, which for whatever reason was not suitable to kilt making. If the cloth does not meet certain minimum standards, I I have to turn down their request. I simply don't want to make a kilt -- and take their money for making a kilt -- that I think will be sub par.

On the particular issue of velcro, I think it is safe to say that for many people, velcro in a kilt implies a lower quality garment. I'll be blunt -- I've never seen velcro used in a high quality kilt. The only kilts I have seen that utilize velcro have been children's kilts, or inexpensive casual kilts for adults. So it is very likely that this kilt maker you want to did not want to make a kilt with velcro because she didn't feel it would be to her usual standards. I can't blame her for that.

Now, I would hope that any kilt maker would be able to listen to whatever requests you have, and if they could not be met, explain to you why, and maybe offer some alternatives. For instance, you could have had the kilt made with no straps and buckles at all, and just worn it with the belt holding it on. I've done that before and it works just fine. If you decided later on down the road you could have added your own velcro.

Anyway, without having first hand knoweldge of the treatment you recieved, I can't comment. I certainly hope she wasn't rude to you, and if she was, shame on her. However, I don't think she can be faulted for simply declining the request. Lots of other kilt makers would have made the same judgement call. But others may have decided differently. In the end it was her call to make.

Aye,
Matt

[pdcorlis]

I have written and trashed three replys as this thread has moved along. As usual - others have been able to make my point better than I ever could. I just want to throw in a quick THANK YOU to all our highly talented kiltmakers for their contributions to this thread. I think they have revealed some important truths about kilt making here.

For this kilt wearer, each kilt I have added to my humble kollection comes with some newly learned truths about kilts. I have, in the past, had some pretty "exciting" ideas about how each kilt could be constructed or pleated. It has been up to our skilled kilt makers to gently explain why my ideas can't or won't work. So again - a big THANKS to all those who help us understand kiltmaking just a bit better.