Gorilla or elephant?

[Joel]

(since this thread is about English- I'll write in English )

An overall good post. You made some great points. I believe you're 100% right on the ignorance and illiteracy.

and now....

it is back tae Scots fur me!

cheers

[Archangel]

Another interesting evolution is the reversal of slut and nice. They had exactly the opposite meanings in the 1600.

The F word is an old English word for a type of seed planting where a stick makes a hole and the seed is dropped in the hole ( as opposed to scattered). In the Greenman type of plays, there used to be a character known as Dr. F....

So, words change, life is fun.

[gilmore]

...
The F word is an old English word for a type of seed planting where a stick makes a hole and the seed is dropped in the hole ( as opposed to scattered). ....

What is your source for that?

I had heard nothing of its etymology other than it came from the Dutch, fokken.

Edit: We are both wrong. For the various proposed etymologies, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**** The article claims the earliest known usage, sometime before 1500, was in a poem in a mixture of Latin and English, "non sunt in coeli, quia fvccant vvivys of heli."

[Archangel]

What is your source for that?

I had heard nothing of its etymology other than it came from the Dutch, fokken.

Really, sheesh.

Once again, I go off on a tramp just for you.

Are you okay with the first example?

[Ian.MacAllan]

. . . I have no idea how or why these two phrases could have been inter-twined....

I'll put my money on confusion fueled by a slip of the memory.

When I use that metaphor I make it a 2000-lb gorilla (in consideration of general inflation). I'm sure other people take their own liberties.

.

[Coemgen]

Personally, I feel that words and phrases mean what they mean, and I refuse to use them in any other manner. I may be a bit of a grammar freak, but it really annoys me when people use the wrong word for the intended meaning.

For instance, the word "literally"; if I had a nickle for each time I heard someone use the word "literally" when they meant "figuratively" or "metaphorically" or perhaps "practically," or even something like "just about," I'd be rich. Exempli gratia, someone who says "That literally chaps my hide," when their hide is not in fact chapped.

Or the words "Christian" and "gentleman." The word "Christian" meant someone who professed belief in the teachings of a specific religion; now it is usually meant as someone who acts some way pleasing to the speaker, such as someone who is tolerant or charitable, never mind whether or not they believe anything remotely connected to the Christian church.

"Gentleman," on the other hand, meant a person who owned land and had a coat of arms. Today it means someone who acts courteously; there is already a word for that: "courteous."

Sorry if I'm a little uptight about this, but I hold quite strongly to the principle that "words mean things," and that what they mean is not based on what we want them to mean.

By the way, I'm much nicer in person than the above rant implies

[berserkbishop]

I see that someone is familiar with C.S. Lewis and his Mere Christianity eh Coemgen?

I have to blame a problem with language misuse and a loss of certain "big" words in the general publics' vocabulary partly on the school system. When I was in 8th grade, I read on a college level, and everyone else in the my class at least read on an 8th grade level or they had special education classes. Today I find that most kids in the 8th grade average a 6th grade reading level, many less than that, and no attention is paid to that. Conversely, the math I was doing my senior year in high school was calculus, where as kids in the same school now are taking college level algebra.

Bishop

[Coemgen]

I see that someone is familiar with C.S. Lewis and his Mere Christianity eh Coemgen?

Well, I've been know to read it several times . I'm a HUGE fan of Lewis. I have most of his theological works in print, as well as several in audio format, including a recording of him reading The Four Loves, the only time his voice was ever recorded. Of course, I also have the Chronicles of Narnia and the Space Trilogy. I have yet to get his biography, The Shadowlands, but that is on my wishlist.

I have to blame a problem with language misuse and a loss of certain "big" words in the general publics' vocabulary partly on the school system. When I was in 8th grade, I read on a college level, and everyone else in the my class at least read on an 8th grade level or they had special education classes. Today I find that most kids in the 8th grade average a 6th grade reading level, many less than that, and no attention is paid to that. Conversely, the math I was doing my senior year in high school was calculus, where as kids in the same school now are taking college level algebra.

Bishop

Yeah, I know. I just entered college, and I was astounded that they offered classes in basic algebra and in basic writing. I assumed that there would perhaps be a few remedial classes in those subjects, but that most people would start out with calculus or literature.

Of course, I should have noticed something was up when I realised my high school offered pre-algebra, and that the kids in my freshman English class thought the word "fray" was a "BIG WORD."

Apparently, I was at what would currently be considered college level education in mathematics, history, literature, and grammar when I entered high school. This is attributed to the fact that I was home schooled up to that point, and that my "teachers" (my mom, dad, and my mom's parents) were very well educated and instilled in me a love of learning and reading (my mom had two bachelor's degrees and a master's degree and was a certified teacher, my dad was an engineer in the U. S. Navy for ten years then worked in the Silicon Valley in the 90's, and both my mom's parents were teachers and had master's degrees).

Anyhow, I am loathe to put up with the lack of education, especially in logic, of my peers. This would tend to explain my extreme introversion; well, that and the fact that I have Asperger's syndrome.

But, this is off topic.

And now back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

[James MacMillan]

Kevin - You have found a like minded individual here. I like to say what I mean, and mean what I say.

But, more and more, that is uncommon. I also find that this is a trait of the geeks among us. We tend to be more factual and literal in our words and thoughts.

Having said that, we must remember that English is a changing language and changes with usage. New words are invented every day, and meanings changed to fit the times. I too, don't like it that the dictionaries have less usage, and I join you in your rant.

Why can't we just say what we mean?

OK - my rant's over for now also.

[Howard Clark]

Yeah, I'm with you guys. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. It is very simple, really. There are lots of folk in our country who cannot deal with that simplicity, however.

It does not help anything when many people say "nucular". I don't care how many people say it incorrectly, it is still incorrect. Everyone say it with me now, N U C L E A R. There, wasn't that better.

Language has meaning. Yes, it is a living, dynamic thing, and changes all the time. That I know. It does not mean one has to accept all changes without protest, especially when words are used incorrectly as to their meaning.