what am I seeing here?

[cessna152towser]

The mind boggles at the vast knowledge of Steve and Matt.
The internet is a wonderful learning tool.
Thanks guys.

[ThreadBbdr]

Fantastic pictures of the mill! I was going to tackle this one from the hand-weaver's perspective, but you all beat me to it and did it better!

[ForresterModern]

My Marton Mills Jura 16 oz Black Isle has the turned and thickened selvedge like in the pictures but is slightly less obvious, probably because it is practically all black anyway. My House of Edgar Nevis 16oz /ancient MacDonald does not have it and neither does my Strathmore 13oz Forrester Modern.

It is interesting how different weavers and even different ranges within weavers can be differerent with whidch type of selvedge they use. The turned in selvedge, while it may be becoming the standard due to technology changes, in my mind is clearly less desirable than the older standard kilting selvedge. I think I will likely be sticking with tartans which do not have a turned in selvedge, if I have a choice, in the future. Just a cleaner look, depending on the quality of the manufacture.

[Ryan Ross]

My question is: Which type of selvage is stronger? Does anyone have any thoughts?

Personally, I'd probably prefer whichever one was more durable, as I don't find the look of the turned selvage to be that objectionable.

[Barb T]

One of the really nice things about getting a custom weave from DC Dalgliesh is that they still use the old clean (not turned) selvedge. It always looks really perfect.

The interesting thing about Lochcarron fabric is that, when I first bought Lochcarron fabric years ago and they were still doing a clean selvedge, the right side of the fabric was the side that had the twill line running diagonally and down to the left looking across the fabric. This is what I was taught to use as the right side of the fabric. Now, as Matt shows in his photo, Lochcarron fabric is woven with the right side as the side that has the twill line diagonally down to the right. Frustrating.

Whether the turned selvedge shows very much in a particular piece of tartan is at least partly a function of where the selvedge is placed with respect to the tartan. One of the things that no one liked about the early runs of XMarks tartan was the fact that the blue weft threads turned at the edge of the tartan made the edge white stripe look as if it had bled (the infamous "bleeding selvedge"). In the 16 oz run, F&K put a different stripe at the edge of the tartan, and the turned selvedge (where the threads are doubled) is much less obvious.

[Stewart Rendall]

It is important that the kiltmaker use the good face of the cloth for the outside of the kilt. I would guess that the picture in the first post is the "bad" side of the fabric, so hopefully this was on the inside of the kilt.
M

the right side of the fabric was the side that had the twill line running diagonally and down to the left looking across the fabric. This is what I was taught to use as the right side of the fabric.

Yes, I was taught this too. The twill should run from the right hip to the left knee when looking down at the kilt. Adhering to this means there is only one side the kiltmaker can use and no 'good' or 'bad' side.

Do you still work that way with the lochcarron cloth Barb, or do you change the direction of the twill when the tucked threads are visible on the other side?

[Draelore]

WOW!!

Threads like this one keep me coming back for more!


Andy

[Barb T]

Yes, I was taught this too. The twill should run from the right hip to the left knee when looking down at the kilt. Adhering to this means there is only one side the kiltmaker can use and no 'good' or 'bad' side.

Do you still work that way with the lochcarron cloth Barb, or do you change the direction of the twill when the tucked threads are visible on the other side?

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one having this problem with Lochcarron tartan!! I try very hard to use the side with the left diagonal. I look pretty carefully at the ends of both halves of the tartan and try to pick the one that looks the best for the apron. The bigger problem is the little thread joins that show up on what they think is the back but what I think is the front. I've had to poke them through to the other side to hide them, on occasion.

What about you?

[Stewart Rendall]

It's never really been bad enough for me to consider flipping the cloth in the other direction. If I encountered cloth where the tucked threads were noticeably more apparent on one side then I'd probably have to think about it.
It would feel odd making it with the twill going the other way though. It's a tricky one.

[turpin]

.... and in fact there was a short section along the side that was still hemmed.

Typically the first pleat (left side) has a bit of a tuck-up hem to prevent the corner of the pleat from peeking out from under the aprons and messing up the uniform line. I think this is also done with the right-hand corner of the under apron.