Waistcoat and belt

[caig]

My Clan Chief ( Alwyne Farquharson) often wears a belt under his waistcoat, and on occasion he wears a SECOND belt over the top of the waistcoat.

I say do what you wish. There are no rules.

[svc40bt]

I quite agree that half a belt showing under the waistcoat is not a good look. I also am considering the buttons on each apron solution for braces that a couple of members suggested. I was hoping to see a couple more photos of folks wearing a belt over a waistcoat as I remember seeing a couple posted here before.

As I said, I am considering making a waistcoat, perhaps from moleskin or microsuede; so I was wondering if I might cut it shorter and straight at the hem to show the entire belt, perhaps with straps to keep it down around the top of the kilt. Any opinions on this look?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Let me be blunt and ask if you strap your belt under your gut? If you do, that would explain why you are having problems keeping the kilt in place. The kilt, like trousers, is designed to properly go around your natural waist, not under your tummy. If you are wearing your kilt around your waist (and by this I mean with the top of the kilt pretty much parallel with the floor), and you are still having slippage problems, then you need to wear braces to hold it in place (assuming, of course that the kilt is properly tailored, and fits).

Braces for kilts need to be fairly wide, at least and inch and a quarter in my experience. You will have to install six buttons on your kilt, and these should be placed as follows: two centered on the back, preferably inside the waistband about two inches apart and one inch below the top of the kilt; the other four go on the inside flap of the kilt, roughly in line with your nipples. These should be spaced the same as the two in the back, ie: an inch down and about two inches apart. The buttons need to be on the outside of the inner flap for two reasons: (1) they will need to be "backed" or reinforced on the opposite side of the flap to take the strain; (2) they are easier to "do up" if they are on the outside of the flap.

Like Jamie, McMurdo, and others have said, a belt isn't worn with a waistcoat, so if I were you I'd skip it, especially if you have a tendency to fasten it under your gut as this only accentuates the size of your tummy. Big time.

The danger of a flat bottomed waistcoat is that unless it is cut with sufficient length your shirt will have a tendency to show through the gaps as you walk, bend, or sit. This is more apt to occur with large men than with those of average or slender builds.

As posted elsewhere (and often):

I say do what you wish. There are no rules.

Sorry, but I'd have to disagree-- rules exist to prevent people from making mistakes. To suggest that someone "ignore the rules" is to ignore the consequences of that advise. To tell anyone to "do as they wish as there are no rules" is, in my opinion, bad advice.

[JSFMACLJR]

On the other hand, this tartan waistcoat that Sir Malcolm MacGregor is wearing in the below photo was designed to have a belt worn over it.

(This is not the most clear image, I realize. If anyone has other examples of a belt worn properly over a waistcoat, please post them here).

All examples of waistcoats with belts worn over them that I have seen have been for formal wear, so if you are looking for something that will work with more casual attire, I would again suggest the suspenders/braces.

Matt,

Here is a photo of Sir Malcolm, which shows up a little better.




Cheers,
Sandford

[1MUNK3]

I'm in agreement with those that say no belt with waistcoat and if one must, a proper pair of braces. I would love to have a tartan (both front and back) waistcoat in my clan's colours (Cameron) cut on the bias. Do any of you fine lads know of a decent tailor to fit my needs? Thank you all in advance for your kind suggestions !

[Bugbear]

I just looked at my kilt, and I don't see any reason to put buttons on the outside apron. The underapron strap, stabilizer, and left buckle seem to be completing a circle that carries the tension. There is some tension between the left buckle, across the top apron, to the right strap and buckle, but it isn't much compared to the other.

That little bit of tension on the top apron should be enough to keep it in place with the underapron if the braces are attached to the underapron.

As far as I can tell, that is what MacMillan of Rathdown is saying to do, and if you put the buttons on the front side of the underapron, as he says, you will be able to brace upeasily before strapping on the top apron.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I just looked at my kilt, and I don't see any reason to put buttons on the outside apron. The underapron strap, stabilizer, and left buckle seem to be completing a circle that carries the tension. There is some tension between the left buckle, across the top apron, to the right strap and buckle, but it isn't much compared to the other.

That little bit of tension on the top apron should be enough to keep it in place with the underapron if the braces are attached to the underapron.

As far as I can tell, that is what MacMillan of Rathdown is saying to do, and if you put the buttons on the front side of the underapron, as he says, you will be able to brace upeasily before strapping on the top apron.

Ted, you got it one! Your prize will be shipped to you in 60 days... or thereabouts!

[Wompet]

Make it a 'load bearing vest'.

Now that I think of it, someone mentioned that the waistcoats for white tie had some similar system to ensure the waistband of the trousers was not exposed.

If I remember right, historical boys' kilts have been mentioned having similar systems - waistcoats buttoned to kilts. There were pictures in at least one thread on the subject. And it has been mentioned that some older MoD kilts had buttons for braces. I don't remember if there were pictures or not.

I fall in the waistcoat/no belt camp - if it were me, I would follow Macmillan of Rathdown's directions for adding buttons to the kilt.

[Southern Breeze]

If I remember right, historical boys' kilts have been mentioned having similar systems - waistcoats buttoned to kilts. There were pictures in at least one thread on the subject. And it has been mentioned that some older MoD kilts had buttons for braces. I don't remember if there were pictures or not.

I fall in the waistcoat/no belt camp - if it were me, I would follow Macmillan of Rathdown's directions for adding buttons to the kilt.

I have several MoD kilts that had buttons for braces. I've removed them since they weren't needed. Since a pic is worth a thousand words, here's two. I placed pennies in the locations of the buttons. There were four in the back and two on the front.

Front


Back

[DWFII]

Well, before I saw Macmillan's post, I put buttons on my kilt...just as I described in my previous remarks. And guess what? It works! And it looks fantastic! It even looks kind of good without the waistcoat over it.

Funny, the first time I ever put on a kilt...and before I had added the belt and sporran and the hose... I kind of recoiled at what I saw in the mirror, 'cuz all by itself it looks like a skirt. But add the braces and even without all that other stuff it looks less like a skirt and more like a man's garment.

I may try the button arrangement that MacMillan described later, if only because it is a bit tricky to button up although I wear button-on braces 24 hours a day anyway...kilt or no kilt...so it's no big deal buttoning them for me.

And the bonus is that I can wear my Scotland's National with my waistcoat for Burns Night!