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  1. #21
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    My friend OC Richard, you have hit a nerve. I don't mean this in a confrontational way, and I don't mean to steal a thread, but, that is not a tooled pattern on that sporran. That is embossed, or pressed into the leather, with a machine. Tooling is much more beautiful (and tedious work) hand cut and hand worked. Embossing envolves putting the piece of leather in a machine and pressing a button. It takes about 30 seconds to put that pattern on the leather. That same pattern hand tooled would take about an hour or so to do correctly. Sorry if I have stepped on any toes, this is just a pet pieve of mine!
    I've survived DAMN near everything
    Acta non Verba

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    I thought this thread would be about the "history of the plain leather day sporran" but so far no one has dicussed that topic.

    Everyone's talking about 18th century sporrans and pokes as so forth.

    But the topic mentioned in the title of the thread is very interesting: Where did the plain leather day sporran come from?

    As we know the mid-18th-century sporran, leather with a number of braided leather tassels, with opening metal purselike top, gradually evolved into the long hair sporran.


    I have a large collection of photos of Victorian and Edwardian people in Highland dress and none are wearing such a thing. I suspect it was invented in the 20th century.
    I have a different take on this, but I find your observation that it is not present pictorially in the 19th century quite astute and something I never noticed or thought about before. I guess I am basically agreeing with prior posters in the thread that the sporran is nothing more than an extension of a pouch or purse hung from the waist, present for at least centuries. I did find a couple of 18th century prints that illustrate this (both contained in Osprey Military series books). I actually saw many prints that had a leather bag with a metal cantle but see your objection to this being considered a plain leather day sporran. I totally agree that the "day" concept must be a fairly recent construct.

    I think this print clearly demonstrates a plain leather sporran with tassels and no metal cantle from the 18th century.




    Although we cannot clearly see the top of this sporran, the flap is evident and I can't see how a metal closure would have been part of this sporran, this one from the early 18th century.




    I think we have to remember that most people we have portraits or sketches of were people of substance/wealth and had the coolest stuff. Why have a plain leather sporran when you can afford a cool silver cantled one? I recognize that scholarly history requires evidence, but I fear the height of that bar sometimes obscures what the common man was doing at the time. I think that the MacLeay prints are a somewhat skewed view of 19th century dress but really cool and accurate for what they represent.

    I have included a couple of pages from Ted Spring's Sketchbook 56, Vol. III - The Highlanders and Provincial Rangers. Obviously these are not period sketches but rather, that author's interpretations. I would comment though that his work is generally respected in the history community to my knowledge. The first page comments that the metal cantle may or may not be present. The second page shows a very simple leather sporran. I would have to dig further to find better evidence but suspect there were plenty of simple leather sporrans going back for a long time, certainly prior to the 20th century. If there truly was any lull in these over the 19th century, then I suspect that what we have now is more of a modern "retro" revival. I seriously doubt that they ever disappeared but concede I have no further evidence to substantiate them over the 19th century.





    Ken

    "The best things written about the bagpipe are written on five lines of the great staff" - Pipe Major Donald MacLeod, MBE

  3. #23
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    I have a large collection of photos of Victorian and Edwardian people in Highland dress
    Most of which are pipers, if my memory is correct

    How many prints exist of the common, working man in his Highland attire? For that matter, how many illustrations of the common Highlander exist pre-1800? I would expect prints of the landed and titled gentry to show them in their 'Sunday best', ie stylized sporrans and so forth.

    Here's a pic of a buckskin sporran, dated 17th century, courtesy of Nat Museum of Scotland

    Suede, late 17th century

    Calfskin, early 18th century

    Allegedly Rob Roy's purse/sporran 18th century


    Entire collection of sporrans at the Museum
    http://nms.scran.ac.uk/database/resu...h_term=sporran
    Last edited by wvpiper; 16th November 09 at 10:14 AM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by wvpiper View Post
    Entire collection of sporrans at the Museum
    http://nms.scran.ac.uk/database/resu...h_term=sporran
    Good link, thanks!
    Ken

    "The best things written about the bagpipe are written on five lines of the great staff" - Pipe Major Donald MacLeod, MBE

  5. #25
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    Your suspicions are mis-placed

    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    So, the "plain leather day sporran" per se didn't exist until the concept of "day dress" itself came about, if we want to be literal. What I wonder is, what is the first pictorial evidence of the "plain leather day sporran" as it was known in the 1950's up through recently?

    I suspect it was invented in the 20th century.
    There is an excellent painting of James Moray of Abercairney, painted by Jeremiah Davidson in 1744/45 (but before the clans "went out" with Prince Charles) that quite clearly shows him wearing a simple leather sporran. So, I think that you may have to revise your opinion that the "plain leather day sporran" is a 20th century invention.

    The picture of Abercairney is regarded by many to be one of the finest pictures ever painted of a gentleman in a belted plaid. Perhaps someone can down load the picture? If not, it may be seen on page 28 of "TARTANS" by Christian, Lady Hesketh.

  6. #26
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    This is a doll, of all things, someone made of the aforementioned James Moray.


    Here's the real thing, I think
    Last edited by wvpiper; 17th November 09 at 07:35 AM.

  7. #27
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    Sorry about my misuse of "tooled"!!

    Yes that painting is very interesting in that is shows a sporran shaped exactly like the modern "day sporran".

    But... when one is talking about the origin of a current thing, to me that means tracing its evolution through an unbroken series of intermediate forms back through to its first known appearance.

    Having an isolated appearance of that sporran shape in the 18th century, when sporrans normally didn't look like that, doesn't to me establish an evolutionary relationship. As mentioned, the leather sporrans of the 18th century evolved into fur sporrans, then eventually into the long goathair sporrans universally worn in all modes of Highland dress by the mid-19th century. This style in turn evolved into the long horsehair sporrans of the 20th century.

    To be quite clear, the type of sporran I'm talking about is the sort almost universally worn in "day dress" in the 1950's up through the 1970's when I began wearing Highland dress:



    This was nearly always in brown leather. It was worn with a standardised outfit which consisted of a tweed kilt jacket and self-coloured hose and Balmoral bonnet in some coordinating shade such as Lovat blue, Lovat green, or tan. Oddly, the ghillies and waistbelt were usually in black leather. (The idea of having all the leathers match didn't occur to most people, it seems.)

    What I wonder is, what is the first appearance of this specific modern sporran design which is contiguous with its continued use up through today?

    I wonder if the military was involved... I don't know when the army began using the plain leather pocket-shaped sporrans it still uses today.

    And, when did the modern "evening dress" sporran appear? It wasn't around in the mid-19th-century either, and strikes my eye as a modern attempt to recreate something more or less like a late-18th-century fur sporran with semicircular metal cantle.

    (These specific styles as opposed to the question of the evolution of the sporran in general.)
    Last edited by OC Richard; 18th November 09 at 04:00 AM.

  8. #28
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    Richard,

    Allow me to suggest that you may have to do some more research-- I would hardly describe the appearance of the sporran in the painting of Abercairney as an "isolated instance"; it was merely the first example that fell readily to hand. I'm sure that one could, if so inclined, spend a great deal of time looking at contemporary illustrations, drawings, and pictures from the 18th and 19th centuries and reach the conclusion that the sporran in the Abercairney picture is far from unique to the mid-20th century. In front of me, opposite page 36 in the book "The Kilt" by Loudon Macqueen Douglas, published in 1914, is a photograph of Mr. Douglas wearing exactly the sort of sporran as illustrated in you post (above).

    Without bothering to spend any more effort in tracking down a style of day wear sporran that seems to be pretty much as "old as the hills", or at least as old as the wearing of the kilt, I'd suggest that you are looking at a style of sporran that has been around for well more than 250 years.

    As far as the modern dress sporran is concerned, perhaps you could define "modern"? I mention this only because if you look at Raeburn's 18th century portrait of Macdonnell of Glengarry -- in which the sporran being worn is nearly identical to that worn by Prince Henry of Battenburg c.1890 (see the vintage photo thread), which in turn isn't all that different than the one I wore to a Tartan Ball last Saturday night, it would seem that none of these would be out of place if worn as a "modern dress sporran".

    Dress sporrans are very much a matter of personal style, popular fashion, and disposable income. While the "off the shelf" sporrans are almost always ubiquitous in their design similarities, such was not, and is not, always the case. I think most knowledgeable students of Highland attire would agree that the dress forms of today are the result of about 250 years of sartorial evolution. During this period several "classifications" of sporrans have doubtless emerged. Within these broad classifications are numerous variations, all of which make it virtually impossible to say with any certainty that the genesis of a particular style dates from a specific date.

    While it is handy to be able to trace an artifact back through an unbroken series of intermediate forms when trying to establish the process of its evolution, sometimes an item is the the result of spontaneous generation-- as is most likely the case with the sporran, and a host of other common utilitarian artifacts.
    Last edited by MacMillan of Rathdown; 18th November 09 at 11:51 AM.

  9. #29
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    Years ago I bought a little old book at a used books shop:

    The Scottish Tartans
    With the Badges, Arms, Slogans, etc. of the Clans

    Rentons ltd 33-38 Princes Street Edinburgh
    opposite Waverly Bridge

    There's no publishing info in the book but the last date mentioned in the text is 1914 and one certainly gets the impression that the Great War hasn't happened at the time of publishing.

    In any case, the book contains illustrations of over 80 male figures in Highland dress.

    I took stock of the Highland dress shown and it's rather interesting:

    The vast majority are wearing the style of jacket evidently sold as the "Celtic" jacket. This had gauntlet cuffs and full Inverness tashes but had an open collar with lapels.

    Of the men wearing this jacket style, 32 are wearing long hair sporrans, 11 animal mask sporrans, 4 18th century sporrans, 2 sporrans which resemble a modern fur Evening Dress sporran, and 2 which are like a modern fur Evening Dress sporran but are somewhat larger.
    The illustrations showing the current "Celtic" jacket paired with 18th century sporrans often also show other anachronisms like Pampootie-like footwear, targes, etc. It seems obvious that these figures are intended to show historical, rather than current, Highland dress.

    Of the men wearing tweed jackets, 5 are wearing long hair sporrans, 3 animal mask sporrans, and 2 sporrans resembling modern Evening Dress sporrans.

    A number of figures are wearing 18th century style jackets, wigs, etc and of these, 4 are nevertheless wearing long hair sporrans, 9 are wearing 18th century style sporrans, 2 animal mask sporrans, and 1 modern Evening Dress sporran.

    There is one figure wearing what we would call an Evening Dress jacket, in this case with a long hair sporran. There are no figures showing Military dress.

    So, on the eve of the Great War, long hair sporrans are still the sporran of choice with the "Celtic" jacket, day jacket, and evening jacket.

    Sporrans resembling modern fur Evening Dress sporrans have appeared but are worn with any mode of Highland dress.

    Not a single illustration shows a sporran resembling a modern plain leather Day Dress sporran.

    The pages look like this:



    This shows the currently popular "Celtic" jacket, and shirt and tie, worn with a sporran resembling a modern Evening Dress sporran but somewhat larger, with Pampootie-like footwear. So, like many of the illustrations, it's an odd blend of current fashion with historical touches.

  10. #30
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    Caveat lector

    I have the same book on my shelf, and I would suggest that it really should not be considered any sort of authoritative guide to the development of the dress sporran. Merely because the fanciful illustrations accompanying the representations of clan tartans primarily depict gentlemen in hair sporrans does nothing to prove other styles of sporrans weren't worn. Looking at these illustrations one could assume all sorts of things about Highland dress, most of which would be erroneous!

    There may have been a time when only the military inspired horsehair sporran was worn with civilian Highland attire but, given the individualistic nature of the Scots, I doubt it. I think one can safely assume that there was a time when this style of sporran was extremely fashionable (probably 1870-1930), and that it may have dominated the ball rooms of Scotland. But I don't believe they could be considered, by any stretch of the imagination, to have been the only type of sporran worn with evening dress when kilted.
    Last edited by MacMillan of Rathdown; 19th November 09 at 08:55 AM.

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