Jacket types

[Bugbear]

Well, sort of, but not necessarily......Early on, military uniforms and their fancy cuffs and rows of buttons on the front were in fact, inspired by civilian dress frock-coats of the 17th and 18th century. What happened was that while the military adopted these details from civilian styles, the civilian styles went on to evolve away from the fancy cuffs and lapels, whereas the military kept them. Then, when the craze for Highland attire returned in the early 19th century, the civilian form of dress copied the military (since the kilt had been preserved solely as part of regimental military uniform during proscription).

That's interesting, I hadn't heard that about the jackets and doublets before.

[MacLowlife]

Thanks, Deil's Chiel, but the cuff to which I object ( on tweed jackets) is the OTHER fancy cuff-The BRAEMAR, per the handy chart (AKA PRINCE CHARLIE) - the one still seen on military tunics which looks like a scalloped flap running halfway up the arm. I believe it is where rank is shown ( via pips?). The "bucket cuff" ( AKA ARGYLE, AKA GAUNTLET) shown in your pictures, while it is certainly fancy, is not the one that strikes me as inconsistent with tweed.

Thanks for the photos. A little further reading over at the Wikipedia shows that the cuff-rank insignia used during WWI for Scottish regiments worked with a bucket style cuff, while the English used the flap style.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British..._rank_insignia

I am the first to admit that my opinion is nothing more than that. Ted Crocker has observed elsewhere that opinions run strong on lapel shapes over in the Saxon formal wear world. Just as those people are not able to enforce their tastes beyond their own closets, neither am I. But I would add to my original complaint of military formality grafted onto an informal jacket, my new complaint that it is ENGLISH military formality.

What is they say in France? Chock one at your son's gut?

[HarborSpringsPiper]

but I rate that scalloped cuff, which comes directly from a uniform tunic, as military in origin and feel. Military and tweed do not seem to belong in the same category to my tiny brain, but see above. We haven't even opened the can of worms marked EPAULETTES yet,

oops.

Ah, I understand now why you consider them incongruous.

I'm certainly not very well versed in historic origins of clothing either, but I think epaulettes have somewhat of a mixed history as well, including civilian, religous and military. For example, see: http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/EMS_EU...d_from_ep.html

Why isn't any of this stuff as simple as it appears at first glance??

[Bugbear]

Ya, The Deil's Chiel, I really don't know anything about it other than what I read here on the forum.

As far as the tuxedo folk, I am put off black tie attire (non-Highland) after reading comments I came across in several web searches. I don't need to be treated poorly, or ordered to fill someone's water glass because I am wearing a tuxedo with knotched lapels...

[Bugbear]

I wonder what shawl-collar lapels signify? Jazz musician?

Actually, those are fine. It's the tuxedo shirt with the frilly, ruffeled front that apparently signifies jazz musician status.

[HarborSpringsPiper]

Totally OT, but I ran across this reference about white dinner jackets the other day and had to chuckle when I read your reference.

And if a man is particularly serious about formal convention, a white jacket should never be worn in the city “unless one has a napkin over his arm or a saxophone up to his lips” in the words of Esquire magazine.

[HarborSpringsPiper]

double post

[csbdr]

Actually, those are fine. It's the tuxedo shirt with the frilly, ruffeled front that apparently signifies jazz musician status.

No, no no....those ruffled shirts mean "lounge piano player" !

[okiwen]

"I'm still somewhat confused as to the differences between an Argyll, a Braemar, a Crail, ect.
Could someone help out by giving me a description of each? What I'm looking for is the differences in buttons (placement and number), cuffs, pockets, ect.


OH HERE HERE!!! I have been trying to get ahold on this for-ever

[HarborSpringsPiper]

As has been stated before, these are not consistent definitions. I think that those contained on this linkhttp://www.scotweb.co.uk/browse/mens...kets-and-vests of one of our sponsors are what most people mean when they use these terms.