mourning dress

[ThistleDown]

Ok, this will probably show how uninformed I am, but here goes anyway. I have found at various tartan sites, mourning tartans for various clans (usually the larger ones that have, it seems, tartans for just about everything). These mourning tartans are usually black and white variations on the clan tartan, sometimes with grey in it too. Would this be appropriate to wear?

CG would you mind telling us to which clans you are referring? I know of a couple of black and white variations known as "Dress" tartans, but not any officially recognised as "mouring" or "funeral".

[davidlpope]

CG would you mind telling us to which clans you are referring? I know of a couple of black and white variations known as "Dress" tartans, but not any officially recognised as "mouring" or "funeral".

Rex,

Here's a quote from James Scarlett from the STA website concerning their dubious origin:

As to 'funeral' tartans, our old friends the Sobieskis concocted a black and white 'Mackfarlan' tartan and so paved the way for black and white versions of other simple patterns. 'Funeral' and 'Mourning' may just be fanciful descriptive names; if they were ever used for the purposes suggested it can only have been as a late affectation.

The Clans Originaux swatchbook of 1880 contains a "Mourning Stewart" tartan. I believe that these were an idea (a bit like Dress Tartans, perhaps?) that really never caught on since kilts are so expensive...


See these links:
http://www.tartansauthority.com/tart.../royal-tartans
http://www.tartansauthority.com/reso...first-casualty

Cordially,

David

[ThistleDown]

Rex,

Here's a quote from James Scarlett from the STA website concerning their dubious origin:

As to 'funeral' tartans, our old friends the Sobieskis concocted a black and white 'Mackfarlan' tartan and so paved the way for black and white versions of other simple patterns. 'Funeral' and 'Mourning' may just be fanciful descriptive names; if they were ever used for the purposes suggested it can only have been as a late affectation.

The Clans Originaux swatchbook of 1880 contains a "Mourning Stewart" tartan. I believe that these were an idea (a bit like Dress Tartans, perhaps?) that really never caught on since kilts are so expensive...


See these links:
http://www.tartansauthority.com/tart.../royal-tartans
http://www.tartansauthority.com/reso...first-casualty

Cordially,

David

Thank you, David. Jamie referred to "funeral" tartans in a couple of his other writings, but I never asked him which tartans he was referring to. Macfarlane was apparently one of them and you give a Stewart as another. I know there are no tartans in the Wilson's swatch book at Moy that could be described as funeral. Can the OP or others provide us with more names?

[davidlpope]

Thank you, David. Jamie referred to "funeral" tartans in a couple of his other writings, but I never asked him which tartans he was referring to. Macfarlane was apparently one of them and you give a Stewart as another. I know there are no tartans in the Wilson's swatch book at Moy that could be described as funeral. Can the OP or others provide us with more names?

A search of the STA website for the term "mourning" turned up only two: Stewart and Menzies. Menzies looks like it may have been a late adoption.

A search on the "House of Tartan" website tartan finder (which allows you to exclude colors that are not in the tartan you are looking for, as well as search for colors that are in the sett) yielded the following tartans that are all black and white. I have omitted those that are clearly newly created fashion tartans.

1126 Stewart Mourning
1229 MacPhee MacFee or MacIvor
1244 Menzies B/W
1245 Scott
1246 Erskine B/W or Ramsay
1247 Stewart Mourning
1250 Ogilvy B/W
1251 MacFarlane B/W or Lendrum
1252 MacPhee (B&W)
1253 Shepherd
1823 Clergy (Logan)
1824 MacLean Black & White
1825 Scott
1826 Scott (Sir Walter Scott)
1828 MacLeod Black & White

I don't know think we can say that these were all designed as "mourning" tartans, but I doubt that their stark black/ white color palettes are purely chance, either...

Cordially,

David

[davidlpope]

I wonder if the mourning sett of the Stewart tartan would be what we know today as the "black Stewart"?

No. A image of the Mourning Stewart can be found here:

http://www.tartansauthority.com/tart.../royal-tartans

[Jock Scot]

I do think we all need to be clear of the very different meanings of morning dress and mourning attire.

Again we are heading into the realms of theory and practice here. There may well be actual "mourning tartans", but in six decades of Highland funerals I cannot say that I have ever seen one. Like the pictures of the MacLeod funeral everyone wearing the kilt is wearing what they have got----clan tartans.I would be appalled if someone had a special funeral clan tartan, why have one? What is the matter of your everyday clan tartan? ------Nothing, of course!

As I have said before, the most important thing is the fact that people have attended the funeral and not what they are wearing. However, I do think careful consideration should be given to whether the kilt is suitable attire, particularly outside Scotland, for EVERY funeral. Alright, the pictures show a Highland funeral and quite typically the mourners have turned up with what they have and frankly it matters not whether the sporran is right, the jacket is right, the colour of the wife's nail varnish is right, they are there to pay their respects and anything else is a mere insignificant detail.

Now we do (should) try to dress correctly for the occasion and that is, I suppose, down to years of convention and personal pride, and I am not just talking about kilt attire here, either. Sometimes though, like any soldier will tell you, "sometimes we have to fight with what we have, not what we OUGHT to have" and the same goes with what we wear, kilts or anything else.

[Jock Scot]

PeedyC.

In the great scheme of things it matters not one jot what I happen to think. For what it is worth though, the family involved, know you and respect you for who you are and were happy with what you did and that is marvellous.

What I am really trying to say in all this, is for people to be aware of what they are doing at a very sensitive time for others and sometimes we might have to consider forgoing what we might want for the benefit of others.

[PEEDYC]

I suppose it depends very much on how a ceremony such as a funeral is expected to be conducted. I have never been to New Orleans one but I would love a send off the way they do it. My family and most of my friends have always seen funerals as a time to celebrate and honour the life of the person and not a time for mourning. There is time in private for that afterwards. We usually have a good party (wake) after and all seem to enjoy the event with a laugh and a joke. It is obviously different in many countries when it is a time for wailing, sack cloth and ashes and a public show of grief.

When I was in Gambia last a funeral procession passed me. It was men only and they carried the coffin around the village with horns and whistles and trumpets blaring. Not one wore any black. At first I thought it was a bachelor party as that is what they do to the groom (obviously not in a coffin)

I say each to their own as long as you don't disrespect the person or their family.

[The Celtic Gypsy]

I have been reading the replies since my last post. I Only remember two mourning tartans, Stewart and Scott. When I first saw these I thought it was interesting but as i searched other clans for these mourning tartans, i realized it was either something no longer used or a "modern" take on tartans. But as I read the replies, I came to the conclusion mourning tartans are a modern invention possibly to carry on the rather romantic idea of the Victorian mind on the Highlander clans.

As for tartan at a funeral, here is an interesting story. My family kind of a friend of mind who is alone. She plays the pipes and is very proud of her Scottish heritage. My dad always told he wanted her to pipe him into the church for his funeral. It all happened sooner than any of us wanted. She was quite upset by his death, still she complied with his wishes. She also called on two of her friends to help, one on the pipes and one on drums. Not only did they play at the church, they also played at the cemetery. It was very moving for all of there. All three wore their kilts even tho none of my family asked for that because Lynn knew that would have pleased my Dad. And it surely would have.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I have occasionally wondered if someone hasn't mis-spelled "morning" when trying to describe a tartan intended to be worn with formal day wear. As has been pointed out above, the time required to weave the tartan and make up the kilt would far exceed the three days normally allotted between the death and interment of an individual. Likewise, it is unlikely that mourners would have a kilt laying around to be worn on the odd occasion when it was necessary to attend a funeral. It does, however, seem plausible that one might have a special tartan woven for formal day wear-- certainly not a common occurrence, but one more likely than having a tartan restricted to funereal observances.