Ruche Cravat with Prince Charlie Outfit

[wildrover]

Check out the photos of Prince Charles...dress like he dresses. IMHO...the PC + white hose is turning in to a caricature.

You will be very well turned out, if you can find a regular jacket, vest, tie etc...in other words, conservative clothing, with jacket and vest cut for the kilt.

White socks look odd. I've yet to see an example where they don't look out of place, including pipe bands.

-Sean

[lethearen]

In the US, at least, tuxes are the norm for weddings, regardless of time of day. I tried to convince one bride-to-be that a tux on her gent would actually be inappropriate, and I couldn't run away fast enough from her evil glares.

Sadly, that would lend one to think that PCs would likewise be the preferable attire, at least on this side of the pond. From what I understand, Britain tends to have a more traditional stance on what constitutes formal daywear. As in, they actually differentiate between day and evening attire Barring the to-hire industry.

I think a nice Argyll would look smashing. I daresay they look better then PCs any day. And as has been mentioned, the 5-button waistcoat would make a more suitable article with which to wear a ruche cravat methinks. I'm not horribly opposed to that style of neckwear, and I salute anyone who would wear something that's not so every day as a standard necktie or even a bow tie. But I don't see myself wearing one. Mainly because the one time I did, I don't think it was very flattering.

And coloured hose just look beter than white More visually interesting. Decked out in resplendant attire, white hose look a little blah.

[Mark Stephenson]

Well, I would not wear white socks with a tuxedo...
BUT...
the photos of Sean Connery in a kilt wearing white hose seem to show it is possible to look good in a kilt while wearing white hose.

[Lyle1]

Earlier this month, at the Grandfather Mountain Games, my wife wanted me to buy a pair of white hose. I declined, explaining what many people on this forum had written about white hose, and then saying that white would not be a great choice with my kilt.

Sure enough, that evening at the patron's reception, my wife pointed to a young man wearing white hose with his kilt and asked what was wrong with the way they looked. I had to admit that they actually looked good. They were of a thick knit with a nice pattern, and white really complimented the tartan he was wearing.

I think I understand why many people don't like white hose; they have explained their reasons. I don't think I'll ever understand why they so vehemently condemn anyone who disagrees with them, or even worse, wears a pair of white hose. Aren't there more important things to get upset about?

[Bugbear]

Well, I would not wear white socks with a tuxedo...
BUT...
the photos of Sean Connery in a kilt wearing white hose seem to show it is possible to look good in a kilt while wearing white hose.

As far as I am concerned, Highland attire has nothing to do with tuxedos and that is a line of thinking that has many traps and pitfalls. It has quite often been pointed out by Highland Scots on the forum that trying to make one's black tie kilt attire look like a tuxedo, without silver buttons, epaulets, etc, is a "Lowlander" approach.

I am not a Highlander, raised in Scotland or the Highlands, nor do I have a stack of old catalogs and old pictures/paintings with which to refer when dressing, so I have no way to defend what I would prefer to wear in relation to Highland attire. The only option for me is to avoid wearing Highland attire for black tie and formal events. Not that I do black tie often...

That being said, the white hose are probably being subconsciously compared to white spats of the old style formal, non-Highlander attire.

[wildrover]

Sure enough, that evening at the patron's reception, my wife pointed to a young man wearing white hose with his kilt and asked what was wrong with the way they looked. I had to admit that they actually looked good. They were of a thick knit with a nice pattern, and white really complimented the tartan he was wearing.

I have a pair of off-white hose...they work great. Also, IMHO the cable knit hose always look better than the "sport sock" look...but that is a personal opinion and not shared by all! Most kilt socks I've seen have no pattern at all.

Why I don't like white socks:

Most kilts are bold colors. Most kilt jackets and vests are black, blue, or green. Shirts may be similar colors. The result is a very intensely colored outfit, hopefully also well-balanced. Adding a pair of big white socks doesn't usually, visually, work as well to my eye as off-white or a color...the stark white draws the eye away from everything else.

The other thing I do not like is thin kilt socks with no knit pattern whatsoever, pulled nearly to the kneecap and barely turned over (a la kilt hire photo). The combined effect of wearing one's socks in that manner, and wearing stark white kilt hire hose, is that the wearer looks like a schoolgirl.

Also, when everyone is wearing stark white socks with short sleeve dress shirts and a black vest, it looks like their kit was just unloaded from the uniform truck.

When I might like white socks:

A heavy knit, with a thick cabling pattern throughout, worn with a balanced outfit where the socks blended rather than stood in stark contrast. Perhaps colored laces or tassels on one's brogues, and a well-picked garter...it could work. I don't often see it working, though. Eventually I gotta get a pair to wear with the band...maybe I can sneak in with a pair of thick cable knit socks, and I'll try a few things...but it's not high on my priority list .

That being said, the white hose are probably being subconsciously compared to white spats of the old style formal, non-Highlander attire.

Not I...I have absolutely no exposure to spats. It's the color combination...it usually doesn't work.

It would be interesting to see some examples of white hose, when it's working well. Not "off white" or "cream" or "ecru", but really stark white.

-Sean

[ForresterModern]

Okay, I will jump into the fray a moment to post a picture of myself (on the left) in an Argyll with 5 button waistcoat and fly plaid and black ruche tie and (gasp) white bobble top piper's hose, standing next to a friend in his PC with 3 button waistcoat and black bow tie, from a pretty formal dinner event in Edinburgh more than two years ago:



I personally do not think there is anything wrong with the ruche tie if worn with the 5 button vest and in a decent color for the overall outfit. And I think the bobble top white piper's hose look fine with the overall outfit (you cannot see it but my friend was also wearing white pipers hose from his pipe band outfit).

Now, this picture was taken two years ago, only 6 months after I started wearing the kilt. Were I to do the event again, with the knowledge I have gleaned from this forum, I would wear the same out fit, minus the fly plaid (probably not formal enough and not likely as appropriate with the Argyll), and with a more colorful ruche tie and either matching color hose or fancy top hose or my recently acquired tartan Argyll hose. But then again, I might wear the white sometime, too.


jeff

[Cygnus]

As I stated before, I'm not entirely opposed to ruche ties; though I wouldn't wear one to "black-tie" or "white-tie" events (even if the tie was black/white).

Jeff looks good in the ruche tie, and he had the good sense to wear it with a nice formal Argyll jacket and waistcoat. It's not what I would have worn, but it does look quite good.

I would consider a grey ruche tie for more formal morning dress, but that would be about the only occasion on which I'd wear one.

The white socks are bright and tend to draw the eye away from what I think should be the focus of highland attire: the kilt. I do quite like the cuffs on Jeff's hose, though.

I think a quote from C.R. MacKinnon really sums it up:

"...one should always remember that the Highlander liked gay and rich attire. Attempts to 'tone down' Highland dress are un-Scottish and contemptible."

The ruche tie, in my opinion, is adding colour to Highland dress, so if you MUST move highland attire in a particular direction, you're better off "toning up". I feel the ruche tie is certainly toning "up" rather than down.

[Bugbear]

"...one should always remember that the Highlander liked gay and rich attire. Attempts to 'tone down' Highland dress are un-Scottish and contemptible."

That is one of the quotes I was thinking about in relation to not wearing and comparing Highland attire to black tie.

[Cygnus]

That is one of the quotes I was thinking about in relation to not wearing and comparing Highland attire to black tie.

The quote fits that well enough as well - though the quote's author does just that frequently in the same publication:

"This is the equivalent of the Lowland dinner jacket..."
"This is for wear when Lowlanders would normally wear white tie and tails."

I think such a comparison is good for education as it gives people a familiar frame of reference. It seems the trouble arises when people begin importing the elements of "standard" black and white tie to their Highland dress, and do so thinking it is traditional.