The sgian as a weapon for fighting

[artificer]

It is what it is, despite the efforts of some to turn it into some sort of Scottish ninja commando dagger.

:lol I have been viewing this thread with a mixture of amazement and hilarity and I was trying to think up a suitable reply. Scott you have come up with the perfect words!

You two have just made my morning!

Folks, if you need to carry a weapon that bad, and you think your sgian dubh is the best you can do, fake a limp and start carrying a cane; you'll find that it's an almost infinitely more effective defense tool than even a larger knife would be.

Agreed, if you need to carry a weapon that bad, a knife probably isn't the best bet
A nice heavy cromach would be good as a club, or even better if you could have one made as a sword cane!?

[Rab Gordon]

I think we should remember that the Sgian Dubh's place as a cultural icon in today's world is very far removed from it's dark origins in our turbulent past. To me the custom of wearing the Sgian Dubh, unlike the sgian achais, openly and relatively inaccessibly in the stocking demonstrates that it is not being carried as a weapon and should not be viewed as a weapon.

Rab

[Dale Seago]

Count me firmly in the "the sgian dubh was not designed/intended to be a weapon" camp. If you want to carry a weapon but keep it traditionally Scottish, you might try a dirk. My own, named Tartmhor, is a early-1700s style piece from the time before dirks were just big pieces of masculine bling; you can see it on the main page of my website. Caveat: It's a lethal-force option under the law, you can't draw on someone just because they express a desire to punch you in the nose.

That said, canes are great -- with proper training. In my martial art there are (in addition to bladed weapons, flexible weapons, polearms, etc.) a gazillion ways to use a 3-foot length short staff in striking, choking, joint locking, throwing the opponent, etc. Properly understood, it's a very formidable tool. I have one from canemasters.com that goes with me everywhere, including on airplanes.

[Mark E.]

Count me firmly in the "the sgian dubh was not designed/intended to be a weapon" camp. If you want to carry a weapon but keep it traditionally Scottish, you might try a dirk. My own, named Tartmhor, is a early-1700s style piece from the time before dirks were just big pieces of masculine bling; you can see it on the main page of my website. Caveat: It's a lethal-force option under the law, you can't draw on someone just because they express a desire to punch you in the nose.

That said, canes are great -- with proper training. In my martial art there are (in addition to bladed weapons, flexible weapons, polearms, etc.) a gazillion ways to use a 3-foot length short staff in striking, choking, joint locking, throwing the opponent, etc. Properly understood, it's a very formidable tool. I have one from canemasters.com that goes with me everywhere, including on airplanes.

I'll stand with you on this one. Larger dirks of old tended to resemble broken down sword blades-because they were. By-knives that acompanied the larger dirks may have found themselves with more clipped points than wedge shaped ones...Granted, wouldn't want to be butchering with your eating tools, but...If anyone has encountered German trousse assemblages, you will find a common theme amongst function, rather than cultural styles. Sgians, on the other hand...I do a bit of hunting, from deer on down. A sgian, with the wider thinner blade makes a great caping blade, as well as a joint separator. Not so handy with smaller game or birds-That's where my by-knife shines. Anybody that brings up the question of whether the by-knife of a main dirk set is a weapon or an eating utinsel, however...Jeez, we all weren't violent hoodlums back then-some of us had regular jobs that didn't require violence...blacksmiths, weavers, gardeners, shepherds...

On the cane subject...I once saw one of the things outfitted to handle a 9mm shotshell-beware the old guys. Umbrellas with swords too...

[Old Hippie]

Count me firmly in the "the sgian dubh was not designed/intended to be a weapon" camp. If you want to carry a weapon but keep it traditionally Scottish, you might try a dirk.

Good advice. Having been up against steel a time or two in my life, I much prefer to engage an opponent who believes their sgian dhu confers magical highlander ninja powers on them. I'd really hate to be up against someone with a sgian dhu who knows where to hit me. I can attest to the debilitating effect of a slash to a major muscle group. I carry a nice scar on my right quadricep as a constant reminder.

...you can't draw on someone just because they express a desire to punch you in the nose.

Right. Never threaten. Deliver only when required.

That said, canes are great

Having read my Gibbon as a lad I know what the Romans knew about the barbarians. They swing, you thrust. To a moderately untrained fighter, a thrust is harder to counter than a slash (but don't get tied to it...) As a fencer, I learned the power of the thrust delivered from the toes up. A metre of straight ash with a rubber foot on it can deliver a pretty good punch in the right hands...

:ootd:

[Mark E.]

Good advice. Having been up against steel a time or two in my life, I much prefer to engage an opponent who believes their sgian dhu confers magical highlander ninja powers on them. I'd really hate to be up against someone with a sgian dhu who knows where to hit me. I can attest to the debilitating effect of a slash to a major muscle group. I carry a nice scar on my right quadricep as a constant reminder.

Was once a member in a very small circle, and when someone popped up and said why don't y'all use real steel, we would drag out the book of Uglies (trainer manual for ER interns), and pose the question..."How do you know who has won a knife fight?" "Whomever gets out of the hospital first".

Having read my Gibbon as a lad I know what the Romans knew about the barbarians. They swing, you thrust. To a moderately untrained fighter, a thrust is harder to counter than a slash (but don't get tied to it...) As a fencer, I learned the power of the thrust delivered from the toes up. A metre of straight ash with a rubber foot on it can deliver a pretty good punch in the right hands...

Darndest thing about those Romans, it was always 3-on-1, and they all had those blasted dinner table shields...didn't matter if they were using gladia or pilum, was like attacking a tank.
I'll take a short knife to a longsword fight, and once I get under your swings...

[Ryan Ross]

Count me firmly in the "the sgian dubh was not designed/intended to be a weapon" camp. If you want to carry a weapon but keep it traditionally Scottish, you might try a dirk. My own, named Tartmhor, is a early-1700s style piece from the time before dirks were just big pieces of masculine bling; you can see it on the main page of my website. Caveat: It's a lethal-force option under the law, you can't draw on someone just because they express a desire to punch you in the nose.

That said, canes are great -- with proper training. In my martial art there are (in addition to bladed weapons, flexible weapons, polearms, etc.) a gazillion ways to use a 3-foot length short staff in striking, choking, joint locking, throwing the opponent, etc. Properly understood, it's a very formidable tool. I have one from canemasters.com that goes with me everywhere, including on airplanes.

That's a beautiful dirk, indeed!

And on the subject of sticks, if you wanted to keep it traditionally Scottish, a cromach could be used with many jojutsu techniques, just as a cane would have applications simmilar to the hanbo. Of course a stick is a stick, but it's good to know that no one has to reinvent the wheel, just to figure out how they might fend off the bad guys with their walking stick of choice.

Shikin Haramitsu Daikomyo

EDIT: Come to think of it, in a pinch, a sgian don't(provided it was made of solid, stout wood or plastic) could be used with many tessen techniques for graiting on bones and reinforcing strikes to soft targets; and a don't will be better recieved in many places where a blade wouldn't. A handy thing, budo.

[Micric]

Canuck,

I must say old chap, you must have had a crappy sgian dubh or two, to prefer skinning something with an axe or broken coke bottle.

Mind you, I too once skinned a deer with an axe, ...left his jacket on and got -30 that night. It wasn't fun...

[Lallans]

Canuck,

I must say old chap, you must have had a crappy sgian dubh or two, to prefer skinning something with an axe or broken coke bottle.

Mind you, I too once skinned a deer with an axe, ...left his jacket on and got -30 that night. It wasn't fun...

My sgian is a custom made one of highest quality, thank you, and I could shave with it if I wanted to risk losing a ear. My observation was relevant to the needle pointed dagger shape of the sgian blade. The last thing you want when removing a pelt, even of road kill as I do (for tying trout flies), is a sharp-pointed instrument. A dagger blade is almost unusable because the tip pierces the hide, meaning the hide gets sliced also, opens up things in the animal that are better left unopened, and also is dangerous to the user- like most people on this continent, I live in an area with endemic rabies so I'm as nervous as a cat around local dead animals. No sgians for me.

[Mark E.]

My sgian is a custom made one of highest quality, thank you, and I could shave with it if I wanted to risk losing a ear. My observation was relevant to the needle pointed dagger shape of the sgian blade. The last thing you want when removing a pelt, even of road kill as I do (for tying trout flies), is a sharp-pointed instrument. A dagger blade is almost unusable because the tip pierces the hide, meaning the hide gets sliced also, opens up things in the animal that are better left unopened, and also is dangerous to the user- like most people on this continent, I live in an area with endemic rabies so I'm as nervous as a cat around local dead animals. No sgians for me.

Ditto on the above. I have a tomahawk with an ulu type blade (no top or bottom points, like the Eskimo styled blades)..Works quite well separating membranes, and given the hardness of the edge...Much better suited, especially if you are trying to perserve the integrity of the hide for other reasons. My sgian (when I use it after the hunt) partakes in the separation of loin from owner, and tendon from legs-but that is pretty much it. If I skin with it, just extend finger a bit past the point, and push around as you cut.