Right or Wrong

[Tartan Hiker]

Believe it or not there is another consideration that has not been yet mentioned in regards to white hose. If you stand back and look at someone in a kilt and white hose, or view a photo of same, you will find that your eye is drawn down to the hose. The bright white hose attracts your eye much more than the more subtle kilt fabric, and your attention will follow. This presents the problem of balance...you become "bottom heavy" Do you really want the focal point of your outfit to be your shins?

Avoiding white because it smacks of rental outfits is well and fine, but there are more legitimate aesthetic reasons to avoid them.

[Nighthawk]

I'm fairly new here and, I might add, very much the "traditional" kilt wearer.

I've been looking back over old posts for a while and I'd like to ask you all a question.

It comes over quite strong here that most people are against (and some quite strongly) white kilt hose and "jacobite" shirts but seem to be quite allright with someone dressed in a kilt with no belt, no sporran, no socks (of any kind) and a T shirt?

I don't like this casual kilting very much but "whatever floats your boat". Then again I do like these "jacobite" shirts (I have two at the moment and when funds allow I will be buying two more in different colors). I also have three pairs of off white (the color is officially called "ecru") hose that could be mistaken for white and I wear both the shirts and these off white hose regularly and with pride, and will continue to do so.

I seems funny to me that there are quite a few people against what I wear and who seem OK with the so called casual look where non of the accessories are remotely anything to do with Scottish attire or kilting.

Obviously, when attending formal functions one should make the effort to be correctly attired but shouldn't there be more give and take (live and let live) in our attitudes with regards to kilting?

So another way of thinking about things- what color hose, and weight wool tartan, would you suggest I wear here, instead of what I was already wearing?



I don't say this to be argumentative- just to illustrate that there is a time and place for everything, and this is not a good place for hose of any color!! And sand is really hard to get out of wool!!

[Legba]

Welcome to X-Marks from Idaho, USA.
I like the jacobite shirts, but don't own one. Wear t-shirts in the summer, and dress shirts at work. I'm one of those guys that wears the funny t-shirts that seem to tork off some Kilt wearers as well. LOL
Don't own any hose either. Like D&B wool hunting socks.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

The reason why many people, myself included, do not favor the "neo-jacobite" style clothing with the kilt (including the so-called Jacobite shirts) is because it's not really Highland dress, per se. It is more of a costume. It's not a style of shirt that was ever traditionally worn in the highlands. It's not an accurate historic style shirt from any period in Scotland's history. It's not a contemporary style shirt. It seems to be a made up fashion inspired more by Errol Flynn than anything else, which first appeared on the Scottish scene in the 1970s.

Another objection I have to them is that they tend to reenforce the false perception that when one wears a kilt one has to make sure that every other item of clothing you have on is "Scottish" in some way. The line of thinking goes like, "Well, I'm wearing my Scottish kilt, so I need my Scottish socks, my Scottish belt, my Scottish shirt, my Scottish jacket, my Scottish cap, etc." And while there certainly are plenty of items of clothing specifically designed to wear with the kilt (hose, jackets, bonnets, sporrans, etc.) the shirt is not one of them. There has never been a particular style of "kilt shirt" than one must wear with the kilt. Rather, kilt-wearing Scots have always simply worn whatever style of shirt in fashion at the time would be appropriate for the occasion.

So that's the major reason why many traditional kilt wearers might object to a Jacobite shirt but have no objection to a t-shirt. They are not viewing the kilt as a "Scottish costume" but rather clothing that can be worn in a variety of settings. In some of those settings a t-shirt may be very appropriate. But obviously it won't be appropriate for all occasions.

In any case, welcome to the forum, we are glad you are here!

[donlp1]

Welcome from Utah and a newbie. You will will love the folks at xmarks!

I agree with those here 100% wear what you like!!! Be comforable in your own style and let the fasion police worry about what is in their own closet!

I bought my son ,14, some off white socks and he loves them with his red walace tartan kilt and he looks great. Mostly compliments! My 19 year old loves his off white jacobite shirt and likes it with his kilt. No comments from anyone here about the shirt just the kilt. I used to do Mountain Man reenacting (1830's) some year's back and they use the same shirt as supposedly authentic. I don't know if it is or is not I just personnaly prefer a button up shirt or t with a fun message i.e. Real Men Wear Kilts.

Bottom line like all the rest - don't worry be happy

[SlackerDrummer]

The historical shirt that the oft-seen "Jacobite shirt" represents is anachronistic to the modern kilt, which is a Victorian era product, and as such should only be worn with the great kilt IMHO.

[O'Callaghan]

The historical shirt that the oft-seen "Jacobite shirt" represents is anachronistic to the modern kilt, which is a Victorian era product, and as such should only be worn with the great kilt IMHO.

Initially at least the great kilt would have been worn over a leine (linen tunic), as the great kilt derives originally from the cloak (brat) worn by Irish gaels who settled in the Scottish highlands, and that's what they wore.

[SlackerDrummer]

Initially at least the great kilt would have been worn over a leine (linen tunic), as the great kilt derives originally from the cloak (brat) worn by Irish gaels who settled in the Scottish highlands, and that's what they wore.

Then we're agreed. Jacobite shirts should be avoided.

[gary meakin]

BCAC - I understand how you feel. I kind of felt that way when I first joined this group. But the more I read the more I realized that the opinions vary here as much as anywhere else.
And there was also a lot of useful information to be garnered
I got interested in all things Scottish from attending highland games here in New England.
So jacobite shirts were everywhere. As well as off-white hose.
I got all my “Scottish stuff” based on what I saw at these games.

I have 3 different color jacobite shirts. I even have a jacobite swordsman’s vest. I wear the jacobite stuff when I’m working our clan tent at the highland games. In my opinion it’s OK to look “costumy” working at the games.
I feel that attendants expect to see the paraders dressed in something different than an argyle jacket and tie, but when I’m wearing the kilt at any other time, I shy away from anything that might make it look like a costume.

I understand the aversion to off-white hose but I personally don’t see anything wrong with how they look. However, since I’ve belonged here, I can honestly say that every picture I’ve seen where color or diced hose are being worn looks better than off-white hose.

This forum is a great place for information. As long as you can distinguish the opinion from the fact you can learn a lot.
The general consensus IS that you should wear what you’re comfortable wearing. It’s only in specific discussions that the different opinions are exchanged.
I haven’t seen anyone post a picture here and be berated and chastised for what they’re wearing. If they ask for a critique, they’ll get one. And if you got a new jacobite shirt and wanted to show it off here, I’m sure no-one would belittle you for wearing it. (at least not publicly on the forum).

I for one don’t care how good someone’s outfit is if his sporran is hanging too low. It ruins the whole thing for me. But that’s me. I have my opinions just like everyone else.

These are a great bunch of people here. They’ll support you when you need it and they’ll give you thier opinion when you ask for it. And they’ll probably let you wear a jacobite shirt if you want to.

Gary

PS Also, listen to Jock Scot. He knows what he’s talking about

PSS I have 3 XL jacobite shirts I'll sell you if you're interested.
1 white, 1 black, 1 denim.

[Tobus]

My biggest objection to some things that get said here is the pressure it puts on the newly kilted to "wear this, but not that" or "look like me, but not like him".

This is perhaps because people come here to ask how to wear the kilt correctly, and the natural tendency is to point them to how the original wearers (i.e. Scots) do it. After all, it's not like we came up with the kilt all on our own. It came from Scotland, and there are traditions attached to it.

So I think when you see people responding in the manner which you indicated, it's that they are trying to be helpful in teaching newbies the 'proper' way to wear the kilt. Not as a "my way or the highway" type of response. Folks here are generally pretty decent about trying to gently steer folks toward the traditional ways of wearing the kilt, without being overbearing on the non-traditional ways. I think it's a pretty good balance, since all ways of wearing the kilt are accepted (except with pleats in the front!), but we retain a strong tendency toward tradition so that the tradition does not get lost in current fads.