A sad documentary...PLEASE WATCH

[M. A. C. Newsome]

As sad as it may be for those affected industries, some people don't feel they need to spend $300 on a hand made Scottish sporran that lasts ten generations, when they can spend $30 on an imported one that lasts the rest of their lifetime. As our friends in the former textile regions of the southern U.S. can attest, Scotland is not the only country affected by that reality.

Someone posted on our facebook page a similar thought -- why spend $450 on a Scottish-made sporran when they can get a cheap import for $45?

Both his comment and yours assumes a ten-fold difference in price, making the Scottish made product seem unreasonably high in cost. Now, I don't know what Wm. Scott sporrans sell for (the company in the video), but let's assume the retail prices are comparable to Margaret Morrison, another Scottish sporran maker. Morrison sporrans start as low as 39 pounds.

Some do cost ten times that much, I am sure. Like any other sporran maker, they are going to have a range of products at a range of price points.

But I just want to be fair here. It's not as if the choice everyone has is either for an affordable Pakistani sporran or an incredibly expensive Scottish sporran. In some cases the Scottish made sporran is not that much more.

[cdarwin]

It is unfortunate when any person suffers. I personally own a couple of cheap sporrans who's origin I can not be certain of. I simply know that 'I bought it from SoAndSo.' Even still, I could not feel any more emotional attachment to the sporrans from the maker in the OP.

However, there are a some members on this forum that hand make some very high quality sporrans that I could feel an emotional attachment to and be very proud to wear and hope to do so one day. Those are the makers that I believe deserve more credit and attention than they may currently receive.

The same can be said for many of the kilt makers who are also members here (Josh, Rocky, Matt, Steve, Chrytel and many others whom I am not leaving out on purpose). Despite the geographical source of the pieces and parts, it is the effort put into the product that make it special. When a kilt or sporran is made to your individual specifications you can be proud to wear it.

The 'jones' commonly referred to on this forum is one of anticipation of a high quality product that subsequently takes some time to have made and shipped to you.

[cessna152towser]

It is unfortunate when any person suffers. I personally own a couple of cheap sporrans who's origin I can not be certain of. I simply know that 'I bought it from SoAndSo.' Even still, I could not feel any more emotional attachment to the sporrans from the maker in the OP.

However, there are a some members on this forum that hand make some very high quality sporrans that I could feel an emotional attachment to and be very proud to wear and hope to do so one day. Those are the makers that I believe deserve more credit and attention than they may currently receive.

The same can be said for many of the kilt makers who are also members here (Josh, Rocky, Matt, Steve, Chrytel and many others whom I am not leaving out on purpose). Despite the geographical source of the pieces and parts, it is the effort put into the product that make it special. When a kilt or sporran is made to your individual specifications you can be proud to wear it.

Well said, I agree.
Here in Scotland, I have plenty of budget priced off the peg kilts, sporrans and other accessories of unknown origin for casual wear though I take special pride in wearing bespoke kilts, sporrans, pins and other accessories, including kilts which have been made for me by members of this forum in Canada, USA and France and sporrans made by members in Norway and Germany.

[artificer]

There is a difficult situation going on EVERYWHERE right now, that is really well illustrated in the microcosm of Highland wear.

Market forces in the global economy allow cheap production in areas of the world where currencies and living standards are quite different than in Western Europe and the Americas.

That isn't what DRIVES the change though, that's down to the consumer.

People rarely think in long terms anymore. We in the West have been taught (by Brook Stevens and others in marketing) that new is always better.

We no longer look for the VALUE in a product, simply it's price and novelty.

Buy anything new, and in nearly every case it will last half as long as the old item you are replacing. Stoves are a wonderful example. The cheap printed circuit boards in stoves are 'conveniently' installed right above the oven for easy access. The heat and moisture of use will destroy the 'self timing, special setting, convenient programing etc etc' thing in a few years.

Your only other options are A: dirt cheap w/ no circuit board (which will also wear out quickly from other cheap parts) or B: commercial grade w/ no electronics.

People EXPECT to replace everything (and WANT to, in many cases), so there is no need for manufacturers to actually build anything that will last.

Back to the relevant subject- sporrans. Why would the average bloke spend 100-200GBP on a sporran he's going to wear once every other year to a wedding? Or even worse, to bash around at the pub? He's not thinking "my little boy and his children will love this one day".

I think we are only seeing the start of this situation. There will be two markets, the Wal-Marts of the world churning out cheap tat for the masses who don't care about a product wearing out in a season or two, and a VERY high end, for people who can afford specialized or custom work and want it.

The knock-off merchants will always be able to churn out the tat faster and cheaper than a middle market producer who cares about quality work and materials. And if most people either can't tell or don't care, where does that leave the middle market (ie non-custom, relatively high volume)?

It's pretty well illustrated in the video.

ith:

[Jock Scot]

Maybe its because I am of an older generation with older priorities, I really don't know, but I expect to buy shoes that will last 20 years, I expect a fishing reel to last two lifetimes, I expect a gun to last three lifetimes, I expect a sporran to last several generations and so on. All this is assuming a certain amount of sensible use of course, but certainly not "cotton wool" style use.

I suppose that I am a merchant's nightmare as they don't get to sell me things too often! I was always taught ---rightly so, as it has turned out------that the three most expensive things that you will ever buy is first, shoddy workmanship. Second, shoddy materials and the third, is something you don't want.

I know that we live in a world of instant gratification, but if only people took their time with their purchases it would really pay them a dividend. To adjust a well known phrase a tad, but " buy in haste and repent at leisure!"

If people bore the above in mind more often, then it might allow the skilled manufacturer of a quallity product to flourish.

[artificer]

Maybe its because I am of an older generation with older priorities, I really don't know, but I expect to buy shoes that will last 20 years, I expect a fishing reel to last two lifetimes, I expect a gun to last three lifetimes, I expect a sporran to last several generations and so on. All this is assuming a certain amount of sensible use of course, but certainly not "cotton wool" style use.

I suppose that I am a merchant's nightmare as they don't get to sell me things too often! I was always taught ---rightly so, as it has turned out------that the three most expensive things that you will ever buy is first, shoddy workmanship. Second, shoddy materials and the third, is something you don't want.

I know that we live in a world of instant gratification, but if only people took their time with their purchases it would really pay them a dividend. To adjust a well known phrase a tad, but " buy in haste and repent at leisure!"

If people bore the above in mind more often, then it might allow the skilled manufacturer of a quallity product to flourish.

Two sad words that can sum up my and your posts Jock, and are the root cause of much of the consumer's thinking today.

Planned Obsolescence.

ith:

[M. A. C. Newsome]

The dichotomy you describe below, Artificer, is turning First World countries into nations of consumers, and Third World countries into nations of manufacturers.

In the long-term, this does not bode well for the consumer nations who grow to depend on the producer nations for all the things that they need.

There is a difficult situation going on EVERYWHERE right now, that is really well illustrated in the microcosm of Highland wear.

Market forces in the global economy allow cheap production in areas of the world where currencies and living standards are quite different than in Western Europe and the Americas.

[artificer]

The dichotomy you describe below, Artificer, is turning First World countries into nations of consumers, and Third World countries into nations of manufacturers.

In the long-term, this does not bode well for the consumer nations who grow to depend on the producer nations for all the things that they need.

It's not going to be too pretty for the manufacturing nations either, when we all run out of money to continue consuming their goods ...

Here's a nice link to exactly what we're talking about
http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/27/news...sure/index.htm

Manufacturing jobs go overseas to allow for cheaper production = US jobs lost. People get lower paying jobs, and buy cheaper. THOSE jobs go overseas and people get minimum wage jobs and continue to buy cheaper.

Eventually there is nowhere lower to go, and the cycle consumes itself.

[MacLowlife]

I believe we can all agree on certain things- like tat is bad and quality is good. But I think we will all remain best served by using our eyes and our brains when we buy things, not just our reading glasses. Did you notice the man in the film complaining about the edge of the cantle? He said it was too far proud and would cut the kilt. I assume he was talking about goods made in his own shop. Granted, ordering things with no return privilege is one way to get them for less and a sure way to end up now and then with things we do not really want. But we are not really going to go "back" to a world economy consisting of goods made next door. I put "back" into quotes because I doubt there ever was such a world economy, where a consumer always knew his producer.

Now, here is my more important contribution to this topic: I had an eBay bidder this week ( on a non- kilt item) from CHINA. I doubt if any of our Scots or British members would be so rude as to point out that North American consumers used to produce goods for the Old Country, some of them of a quality that was not universally praised. But the world economy has long been shifting, with some countries long past the futility of growing things that don't grow there, making things that can be bought more easily, etc. I know that other posters know that, but it is important to remember. The present state of affairs seems no more permanent to us than the Roman Empire did to its citizens, or the occupation of Spain by the Moors, if we still call them that...

I wish I could conclude with something pithy, but I can't think of anything.

[artificer]

I believe we can all agree on certain things- like tat is bad and quality is good. But I think we will all remain best served by using our eyes and our brains when we buy things, not just our reading glasses. Did you notice the man in the film complaining about the edge of the cantle? He said it was too far proud and would cut the kilt. I assume he was talking about goods made in his own shop. Granted, ordering things with no return privilege is one way to get them for less and a sure way to end up now and then with things we do not really want. But we are not really going to go "back" to a world economy consisting of goods made next door. I put "back" into quotes because I doubt there ever was such a world economy, where a consumer always knew his producer.

MLl- If I was interpreting the video correctly, his son was working on a new design (the semi dress bag with the formal metal cantle trim on the flap). His father commented that he wished his son had asked him first, as he (the father) knew that it wouldn't fit.

His comment about the bit standing proud of the leather then followed.

It was part of the design process, and not about a "stock" finished product.

ith: