X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 71

Thread: Civilian Spats

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,711
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    While I'm sure spats might help keep horse manure off the laces and hose, I doubt that had anything to do with their original intent. After all, spats didn't originate in London. Am I correct in stating that Scotland, and especially the Highlands, was never a place where horses were predominant like they were in the rest of Europe? From all I've read, there weren't a lot of horses used in Scotland.

    Having horses myself (and being one who has cleaned up horse manure for many years, not only in my barn but also from draft horses when we would pull carriages in town), I have to say that horse manure is not nearly as messy as some might believe. It won't stick to your shoe like manure from other animals. As livestock goes, horses are pretty tidy poopers! The worst you'll get from walking through fresh horse manure is a thin film of wetness on your shoes or a few stray pieces of digested hay that fall off when they dry. Horse manure also dries fairly quickly into 'road apples' that you can pick up and crumble between your fingers.

    To many modern city dwellers, it may seem gross. And living where I do, where people still ride horses in town, I always get a kick out of seeing tourists performing grandiose panic-stricken antics to avoid stepping near (or driving through) horse manure. But I am pretty confident that the common person in the era we're talking about would have thought nothing of it. My boots get dirtier walking through mud or wet grass than they do from stepping in horse manure. In fact, the larger threat of their day would have been the HUMAN excrement in the streets. That is most likely what would have filled Scottish streets rather than horse manure, I'll wager.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    17th December 07
    Location
    Staunton, Va
    Posts
    4,948
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobus View Post
    While I'm sure spats might help keep horse manure off the laces and hose, I doubt that had anything to do with their original intent. After all, spats didn't originate in London. Am I correct in stating that Scotland, and especially the Highlands, was never a place where horses were predominant like they were in the rest of Europe? From all I've read, there weren't a lot of horses used in Scotland.
    Horses, and in this general category I'm including ponies, were widely encountered throughout most of Scotland, although less so in the more rugged Highlands. Prior to the railroads almost everything was moved by horse and cart, and that included the transportation of goods in Scotland. A gentleman in a Scottish town or city would experience the same "under foot" problems as his counterpart in London, or Paris, or New York, and would have worn spats-- kilted or not.

    Spats evolved from gaiters, which were commonly worn by gentlemen in the late 18th/early 19th century to protect either their trousers or stockings from becoming soiled when walking any distance, or if astride a horse. These gaiters, which originally would have reached above the knee in the manner of military spatterdashes, slowly became reduced in size until three sizes became the norm; those reaching to the knee (as still worn by some bishops, arch deacons, and rural deans), those rising to the calf (as worn by kilted soldiers in Scottish regiments), and those which rise only to the ankle and are worn by civilians and soldiers in Scottish regiments that wear trews instead of kilts, and are commonly referred to as "spats".

    In the 19th/20th century spats performed an admirable function insofar as they protected the soft leather upper portion of expensive shoes from becoming muddy, or wet. As high button shoes went out of fashion, so too did spats as they no longer served a useful purpose.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    22nd November 07
    Location
    US
    Posts
    11,355
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    * Never mind, off topic. *
    Last edited by Bugbear; 19th May 11 at 11:04 AM.
    I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
    Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…

  4. #4
    Join Date
    8th June 04
    Location
    Port Crane, New York
    Posts
    2,531
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "Spats" is short for "spatterdashes" which are "half-gaiters" - abbreviated versions of the full-length gaiters worn by military men, and some civilians (especially sportsmen), to protect their hose from getting mangled and soiled while in the field, as well as to keep debris out of the shoes.

    As the 18th C. wore on, the full-length gaiters tended to be replaced by the shorter "spatterdashes" for both military and civilians. Kilted Highland troops never wore the full-length gaiters as an issued part of their kit (though many "acquired" them for use in N. American forests!), but adopted the shoter "spats" in the latter 1700s....









    You can purchase the black "spats" here, should you like to adopt the "look", or for forays into the underbrush:
    http://www.gggodwin.com/cartgenie/prodList.asp?scat=24
    Brian

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~ Benjamin Franklin

  5. #5
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,711
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Info like this is why I love this forum!

    Using the term "spatterdash" in a Google search really opens up a lot of sources that I hadn't found using "spats".

    Check this out: a modern company that specializes in spatterdashes. http://www.spatterdash.com/collections/men/spats

    These are the low-cut variety, just barely covering the ankle. This is probably the best look for civilian spats, as evidenced in earlier pics posted in this thread of Scottish non-military gentlemen. It doesn't look like you're trying to emulate a regimental look. They have spats available in all kinds of colors, at a not-too-unreasonable price. Some examples below...



    They will also do custom spats to your specifications.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    11,412
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobus View Post

    Yes it's these that look most like the civilian spats one might wear with civilian Highland Dress back in the old days, in my opinion.

    BTW the military spats worn by Highland regiments in the Napoleonic period were grey.

    Sort of interesting that knee-high spats are a standard part of the traditional Galician folk costume.



    This costume is very interesting. The kneebreeches have become short and end above the knee, the gap between the breeches and spats covered by thin white under-trousers.

    These spats have decorative fuzzy balls at the toes; I've seen them with and without those.

    Note the Galego dialect: single l rather than ll (Galego instead of Gallego), x instead of j (Xunta rather than Junta).
    Last edited by OC Richard; 2nd September 11 at 05:09 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    11,412
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Civilian Spats

    just came across this photo...



    What lovely check tweed jackets and waistcoats! Note the notched lapels to the waistcoats.

    But there again are spats associated with Highland outdoor civilian dress.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    6th July 07
    Location
    The Highlands,Scotland.
    Posts
    15,800
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    TOBUS.

    My father used to wear a pair like the top picture when out shooting as did many of that era and they were quite effective in keeping bits and pieces getting into the shoes. As they need to be snug fit to be effective, a button hook is VERY useful for doing up the buttons.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 17th May 11 at 10:18 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    8th February 11
    Location
    Near Thurso Scotland
    Posts
    992
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    25th August 11
    Location
    Dahlonega, GA
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CMcG View Post
    I know there are also a few members of the rabble who wear gaiters to protect their hose while hiking or out of personal preference... their comments and/or pictures are welcome too
    Not spats, but I've got 3 pairs of gaiters that I wear depending on season or activity. I lived in a yurt for a little over 2 years and wore gaiters with my great kilt daily.

    First pair (green) I made from a pair of US surplus wool trousers. I wear these during the summer and into the fall until I need to upgrade. Please excuse the self pic in the mirror. It was a rush job on another forum.





    Next are a pair I made from a wool blanket. They are for winter/snow conditions. The last image also shows a pair of Mtn Hardwear gaiters that I wear for chainsawing or digging.



Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Spats
    By Lachlan09 in forum Kilt Advice
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 27th December 09, 05:22 AM
  2. Spats?
    By bchunter in forum How to Accessorize your Kilt
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 27th March 09, 03:16 AM
  3. New spats!
    By Macman in forum Show us your pics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 14th July 08, 05:59 PM
  4. Civilian Spats
    By Chef in forum How to Accessorize your Kilt
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 31st December 07, 03:28 PM
  5. Spats
    By MACKAY in forum How to Accessorize your Kilt
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 14th April 05, 01:46 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0