REAL stumper... Argyll Buttons

[piperdbh]

I know Kelly would kill me... not to mention my jacket maker.

If she killed you AND the jacket maker, she'd solve two problems at once.

[spglenn]

And yet we all wear them on our dress jackets.

Speak for yourself (and many others) I have Brian Boru buttons on mine

[ForresterModern]

Speak for yourself (and many others) I have Brian Boru buttons on mine

Although I have the standard Rampant Lion square buttons on my Argyle and waistcoat, I replaced my Brian Boru harp buttons with round Fleur de lis buttons to honor both my pre-scottish ancient Flemish ancestry (part of the Norman invasion in 1066 that settled in lower Scotland) as well as my current location of residence, Louisville, KY, originally founded by the French.

[creagdhubh]

Now you need to think about having your own buttons on those jackets.

Precisely! Engravable sterling silver versions from Hamilton and Inches - if you are armigerous, perfect size for engraving your crest. Of course, I think perhaps you could fit a clan badge of some sort on each button as well.

[EagleJCS]

Sorry for the aside here...

Actually, FM, the city of Louisville, KY was named in honor of Louis XVI in 1780 for the French assistance in the Revolutionary War, but the first permanant settlement in the area - on Corn Island at the falls of the Ohio - was in 1778 by (nominally) English colonists, led by Col. George Rogers Clark.


... now back to your original thread.

[OC Richard]

Clann na Geal An Gradh Le cheile

Here is an excellent photo of one of the buttons in question:



Which appears to say, in old Gaelic script

clann nar sael
ansralli bracrelle

Now, assuming that the "s" is actually a script "g" we get

clann nar gael
angralli bracrelle

Now, a glance in my Gaelic dictionary shows

nar: may not, let not

sael: n/a so it's probably "gael"

angralli: n/a; neither is there a "gralli" in case it's "an gralli", nor a "sralli".

bracrelle: n/a though "bra" is often a shortened "brath" with many meanings, and "brac" can be "brach" (there's no inserted "h" in Gaelic script) which is ferment or bear.

crelle: n/a

But think of how many times the moulds for these buttons have been remade over the decades, quite possibly by people who didn't know what it said, so the present spelling and wording might be very different from the original, possibly from the 19th century Gaelic Revival.

It would be great if people posted large clear photos of their various buttons; these might reveal different wordings and spellings from the photo I posted here.

[OC Richard]

To mix things up even more, here are buttons recently seen on Ebay



"Tir nam Beann 's nan Gleann 's nan Gaisgeach"
(Land of Mountians, and of Valleys, and of Heroes/Champions)

[OC Richard]

and this one! From The Seaforth Highlanders I presume

[bigdad1]

I believe it means "Everyone admits they have no idea what this means but let's put forth an opinion anyway. Just so as to take up more space in our reply."

[CopperNGold]

I believe it means "Everyone admits they have no idea what this means but let's put forth an opinion anyway. Just so as to take up more space in our reply."

-OR-

"this button means absolutely nothing, but thanks for asking"