Tie knots - does it really matter?

[Peter Crowe]

I have absolutely no idea what the tie knot I use is called, it might be a four in hand, but I really don't know. The one thing I do know, it is not a full Windsor knot. In my youth, the wearer of a Windsor knot was regarded with great suspicion by the older generation, I am not sure that applies these days though.

My late Grandpa (born 1906) told me it was seen as 'racy' and not quite respectable by those who disapproved of the Duke of Windsor and his friends.

[creagdhubh]

My late Grandpa (born 1906) told me it was seen as 'racy' and not quite respectable by those who disapproved of the Duke of Windsor and his friends.

Yes, or those who typically wore the Windsor knot may have been untrustworthy politicians!

[werewolves]

Because I'm fairly tall and finding extra long ties can be a challenge, I usually use a Pratt knot. It has a nice shape, but leaves a bit more length to the tie. On the couple of extra long ties I do have, I like the Windsor. Honestly though, barring the four-in-hand, I doubt most people can tell the difference at a glance. And like one poster stated, the type/width of tie makes a big difference in the choice.

Good resource: http://www.tie-a-tie.net/

[Lime]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the late Duke didn't actually wear a Windsor knot but I don't expect that this is entirely true: it is much more likely that the real answer is that he wore different knots with different shirts and ties depending on the cut and material.

I personally don't really wear a Windsor knot and confess that I do view it as being slightly "racy" but it is also partly because none of my shirts have a wide cut away collar and partly because the even appearance of the knot itself doesn't add enough visual interest for me... however it is purely my opinion on what looks good on me with my ties and shirts (others probably have an entirely different opinion!) and I do see other people wearing a Windsor knot and think it looks good on them with their ties and shirts.

Interestingly there was a post on the late Duke's ties recently on:

http://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/

Scroll down to "on red ties knotted imperfectly"

I find, with some amusement, (it is always interesting to view how your own culture is perceived by others) that non-British commentators knock British Style on the head when they say it is the art of being well but imperfectly dressed.

It is something that many Brits seem to know intrinsically (bottom waistcoat undone, tattershall check with regimental stripes, mismatched tweed, chalk stripe with brown brogues, pocket handkerchief which matches neither tie nor shirt nor jacket, garters not matching tartan etc and so forth) and something which Jock Scot and others describe when handing out gems of advice.

In short I wouldn't worry very much about having the right tie knot; work towards the easy elegance of being slightly imperfect!

[Tobus]

Hmm. Predictably unpredictable results to my question!

I do find it humorous that even a necktie knot can have political connotations. *face palm*

The majority of my ties are silk, and can produce extremely small knots if I want them to. Even with a Windsor. I used to like small, tight knots. Mainly because that's what I knew, and I figured it was correct to have a tight, tidy knot rather than a large bulky one. But now I'm appreciating the more bulky Windsor over the Half-Windsor. I hadn't really given it much thought before in terms of making it look well-proportioned with the collar style or suit cut. You folks have given me quite a lot to consider!

I have tried tucking the tail into my shirt between the buttons, but I don't like doing it. It never really lays like I want, and seems to make me feel lopsided. I'm always worried that people will be able to see it and think it's odd. I've also considered just taking the time to manually shorten all my ties by several inches (though that would be quite an effort, as I have over two dozen ties that I wear on a fairly regular basis).

[O'Searcaigh]

The only neck-tie knots I ever learned to tie were (in order of learning); a sailor's neckerchief in a square knot, a full windsor when professionally dressed and finally, a bow tie which my university president said were worn only by college professors and clowns; I qualified on both counts!

[piperdbh]

I use a half-Windsor, because I don't like a big old "grandpa knot".

Tobus, you could shorten your ties on a sewing machine. Sew straight across the narrow tail about 4 inches (or more) up from the point, then cut the tail off 1/4" below the stitching.

[RAF]

As mentioned by most here:
1. Yes, the size of the knot should equate to the style of collar.
2. Yes, the bottom of the tie should just touch your belt buckle or kilt waist, so height does factor into the issue.
However, and interestingly, not mentioned yet, the size and shape of your face, head and general physique also come into play. The size of the knot should be consistent with the size of the man.
Small and/or slim guys benefit more from smaller knots (i.e. four-in-hand) and narrower ties.
Larger knots tend to compliment broader faces, bigger bodies and/or bearded men
Part of it of course is Fashion vs. style. Fashion being what's "in" at the moment. Whereas Style transcends whim and adheres to general rules of dressing to suit your body type, skin coloring, etc.
Trust your instincts! Or if that fails, follow the advice of a trusted friend, fellow X'er or loved one.

[thescot]

I believe I'm correct in quoting 007 that you should never trust a man with a Windsor knot. Ha. "Bond mistrusted anyone who tied his tie with a Windsor Knot. It showed too much vanity. It was often the mark of a cad."

I first learned a half-Windsor at age 4 or 5 since I decided that only "little boys" wore clip on bow ties. My grandfather taught me, and I have never worn a clip on tie of any kind since.

I learned to use the full Windsor as an alternative as a boy--7-9 perhaps--as a means of shortening a longer tie. (I would sneak one of my dad's.) I also learned to match the collar to the knot and tie.

By age 14 or so, I learned that a four-in-hand was crooked, and I refused to wear one, but, getting taller, I learned:
1. a half-Windsor leaves the front longer
2. a wool tie is too thick for a full Windspr (usually)

In the USMC, I learned to tie the then very narrow wool tie in a four-in-hand and use the spring-loaded, one-piece collar stay to make the very small, tight knot stick almost straight out from the very tight collar on my wool dress shirt, and I came to appreciate a four-in-hand as a useful alternative for certain styles of dress, formal wear, etc.

I never heard of a Pratt knot until today--learn something every day!--and after investigating, I see that it is essentially an inside-out half Windsor. Pretty cool knot, though. I may try it out just for the heck of it.

So--back to your original question--I'm pretty sure that the knot has no connotatons these days. I use the half-Windsor mostly because a regular length tie it too short otherwise. With an extra-long tie (which is all I buy now), I can vary the knot by shifting the relative placement of the different ends before tying.

And that's a lot more than you cared to know.

[Chas]

Tie widths change with the dictates of fashion and I have many ties waiting for the fashion pendulum to swing back. I still have a kipper tie somewhere!

Apart from the bow-tie knot, I only ever learned one style of knot. There are, I understand, over a dozen different styles of knot, but I only use one.

So to me it, does not matter

Regards

Chas