who "owns" a tartan?

[David Thorpe]

I thought I remembered a statement from Lord Lyon which said that he does not have anything to do with registering, authorising, or granting tartans. I can't find it on the Court's website, though, so I can't back it up with any evidence...

Don't know about the Lyon Court, but I do know that some Chiefs officially recognize some tartans as clan tartans, and exclude some others.

[McElmurry]

I thought I remembered a statement from Lord Lyon which said that he does not have anything to do with registering, authorising, or granting tartans. I can't find it on the Court's website, though, so I can't back it up with any evidence...

All I know is what is mentioned in the story of the Morrison Red tartan reprinted here from the STA website.

http://www.tartansauthority.com/tart.../morrison-clan

There are two 'stories' surrounding the Morrison clan tartans 1. It was claimed that the official Morrison clan tartan was recorded by Lord Lyon on 3rd January 1968, from a piece of tartan found in an old Morrison family bible. The bible contained a hand written reference to the tartan and was dated 1747, one year after the proscription of Highland dress. The discovery was made during the demolition of a Black House on Lewis in 1935. Lord Lyon was convinced that it represented the most authentic pattern of what the Morrisons wore in those days and he based the new tartan on the relic. The sample in the STA Dalgety Collection was woven by Lochcarron and is labelled (16th March 1972) "Enclosed pattern of the NEW Clan Morrison tartan woven from the sett provided by the Clan Secretary about the end of 1968 and made for the Morrison Clan. The Green one is now officially known as the Society Morrison." There is no 'green Morrison' as such unless that refers to the Morrison Hunting (#1083). 2. #993 is the original Morrison clan tartan but the reason that #998 is now regarded as such is said to be as follows: Colonel Morrison, wishing to re-establish his tartan - his old pre-1939 kilt had been destroyed in a London air-raid - made an error by centring ONE green line instead of TWO on the red band. When this was later brought to the attention of Sir Thomas of Learney (Lord Lyon) by Stuart Davidson in 1967 he refused to alter what had been registered in Lyon Court Books and remarked that the Morrisons would just have to accept it.

[McElmurry]

...

However, if it is so easy to create one's own design, why not do that? ...

I almost went this direction when I was choosing my tartan. I could see someone wearing a universal tartan while gaining knowledge of kilts and such and then designing a tartan of their own.

[kilted scholar]

David Thorpe: I do know that some Chiefs officially recognize some tartans as clan tartans, and exclude some others.


That is so. As one example, the Duke of Argyll regards plain undifferentiated Campbell as the only tartan for his clan, apart from those associated with particular branches (such as Campbell of Breadalbane).

There is a difference of course between the Chief stating that members of his clan are to regard such and such as the clan tartan, on the one hand, and owning that tartan, which would imply that it would be improper for anyone outside the clan to wear or use it

In other words, in the first instance a particular tartan is approved for clan members to wear or use as the tartan associated with their clan, without reference or prejudice to whether other persons wear or use it. The second instance would be a claim that only such clan members had a right to wear or use that tartan; in most cases there would be no legal basis for such a claim.

[Chas]

** Who owns the tartan ? ** and is it really a big deal here in the US ?

Didn't I hear something similar said about patents and copyright, just the other day - but in a Chinese accent.

Sorry Thomas.

Regards

Chas

[bodhran4me]

That process is much easier than it might seem. Scotweb has an excellent tartan design tool set. And Marton Mills, for one, will weave whatever you want very inexpensively in 13 or 16 oz. wool or PV, provided you can get several of your friends and/or kinsmen to get together with you for an order. I am part of such an order right now for one of our clan tartans in PV.

I read in a post recently that the fine print on the designer states that it gives Scotweb the rights to the tartan and something about royalties. I don't seem to be able to find the post at this point, but you may want to be sure to check the fine print if you use the designer.

[Spartan Tartan]

Always read the fine print. Always.

[Downunder Kilt]

I read in a post recently that the fine print on the designer states that it gives Scotweb the rights to the tartan and something about royalties. I don't seem to be able to find the post at this point, but you may want to be sure to check the fine print if you use the designer.

This was the case when the Scotweb tartan designer first came into being. I believe Nick, the owner of Scotweb, subsequently withdrew this requirement and announced it here on the forum. I will endeavour to find the announcement in the Scotweb threads.

[Downunder Kilt]

Here we go, did not take long at all.
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...ictions-61036/

[David Thorpe]

...There is a difference of course between the Chief stating that members of his clan are to regard such and such as the clan tartan, on the one hand, and owning that tartan, which would imply that it would be improper for anyone outside the clan to wear or use it

In other words, in the first instance a particular tartan is approved for clan members to wear or use as the tartan associated with their clan, without reference or prejudice to whether other persons wear or use it. The second instance would be a claim that only such clan members had a right to wear or use that tartan; in most cases there would be no legal basis for such a claim.

Yes, there is a difference between legal rights and respect for tradition. Poor taste and disrespect are not illegal.