To Box, or not to Box - that is the question...

[M. A. C. Newsome]

So my question is, how do smaller yardage box pleated kilts look on big (or in my case - fat) men. Is there a modesty issue to consider here?

The largest kilt I ever made was for a man with a 76" waist. It was a "four yard" box pleated kilt. I put the yardage in quotes because in reality it was six yards. But given the size of the wearer, the additional yardage was required to make the same style kilt that for a smaller man would have been made from four yards.

The kilt looked great on him. It fact, given his size and shape, you can imagine he had a hard time finding properly fitting clothing. As the kilt was made to measure for him, it fit him perfectly and he was quite pleased -- as was his wife.

I've made a number of kilts for larger men over the years. The amount of coverage and any modesty concerns you might have would be the same whether you were in an eight yard kilt, four yard kilt, or a six yard kilt, etc. You are still covered from waist to knee, and you still should always be careful in how you bend over, learn to sit properly, etc.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Box pleated kilts with the exception of a military box pleat are almost unknown in the UK, they are not a standard style of kilt, that being the knife pleated one

You are quite correct, Paul. Most all kilt makers in Scotland, if they have even heard of a box pleat, will automatically assume you mean the modern day military style. And most don't know how to make that style and don't want to bother with it!

It's not that surprising. Keep in mind that the revival of the lower yardage box pleated kilts happened relatively recently, and though it is the original style of the first tailored kilts in Scotland, the revival of that style started in America.

But I feel that kilt makers in Scotland will increasingly start to make this style, as well. There is a small, but growing interest in them. I have made several of these kilts for clients in the UK over the years. A couple of years ago I was in a certain town near Glasgow and popped into a certain kilt maker's shop there and saw a four yard box pleated kilt on the counter. They called it something like a "Jacobite kilt" and said it was a special request they had received from a client who wanted a historic style box pleated kilt. It was, er... an interesting interpretation of what an early era box pleated kilt might look like. I didn't say anything, just commended them for being willing to research an historic style for their customer.

The irony is that Scottish kilt makers are in a much better position to learn to recreate these older styles than kilt makers outwith Scotland. They, after all, have the ability to visit museums and collections that showcase earlier kilts to look at them first hand and see how they were made. Bob Martin, an American kilt maker, went to Scotland many different times to visit museums, learn where the older kilts were in the collections, talk to the curators, study the old kilts, photograph them, measure them, and used all that information to learn to make these traditional box pleated kilts. I learned from him; eventually I was able to see many of these older kilts in person myself, and so can confirm his descriptions of them.

When kilt makers in Scotland finally do begin to offer lower yardage box pleats as an option, they have a lot of resources at their disposal to act as design inspiration.

[JohntheBiker]

In addition to 8 yard kilts, I do have a 4 yard box-pleated kilt from John Hart of Keltoi and it is by far the most comfortable of my wool kilts. The balanced fabric weight fore and aft as well as less fabric to contend with while seated makes a big difference. Looks good, feels great and absolutely glad I have one.

[Sir Didymous]

I have about a 3.5-4 yrd box pleat kilt. I love it for when I'm out and about on hot days and when I'm working on my renaissance style martial arts. It allows great freedom and the decreased weight is a big plus. There is also the fact that the weight is more balanced front to back which is really nice for those of us who are lacking in the rear. It has become my go to kilt for non-reenactment rough and tumble use. Did I mention that it looks good with my chain maille?

[Orionson]

Thank you one and all, Gentlemen. As always, the response is broad, highly informative and very helpful. The process, coupled with reviewing other related posts and threads has helped me to get closer to a personal decision and clarify in my own mind what is most likely to put a smile on my face.

One of the things I have always loved about my heavyweight 8 yard 32/4" deep knife pleated kilt is the very heft of the thing. I appreciate it's warmth in winter and Scottish cooler months and I have never found it too warm - not even through many hot summer months spent in North America.

Whilst I appreciate everything that has been said about the balance of the 4 yard kilt (thank you, Matt for your usual, most excellent and clear analysis) it's coolness in hotter weather and how it literally "sits" well - for my preferences, I realise that I would almost certainly not feel comfortable in 4-5 yard kilt.

I also take on everything that has been said about "swing" - something I am not eager to sacrifice or compromise. The Military Box Pleat suggested may well be a very suitable and satisfactory "middle ground". I think, too that this pleating would suit the 1800 MacDuff tartan that started all this and that it would be very interesting to be able to consider the variety of "line/stripe" options available.

So, it will either be another 8 yard Knife Pleat, or similar yardage in a Military Box Pleat. Which, rather begs the next question for those of you who wear the Military Box Pleat Kilt: is it really as difficult to maintain the crisp fall of the pleating through sustained regular wear/use as has been suggested?

Once again, thank you in advance for your wisdom so freely and graciously offered.

Cheers!

[seanachie]

So, it will either be another 8 yard Knife Pleat, or similar yardage in a Military Box Pleat. Which, rather begs the next question for those of you who wear the Military Box Pleat Kilt: is it really as difficult to maintain the crisp fall of the pleating through sustained regular wear/use as has been suggested?

Once again, thank you in advance for your wisdom so freely and graciously offered.

Cheers!

I am interested in this question as well. I have heard anecdotally they are higher maintenance kilts.

[Pleater]

I think that box pleats do move slightly differently - more wafting than swinging, different but no less attractive I think.

The smartest box pleats seem to be made from the heavier fabrics, and need to be hammered flat - ie - well pressed to give crisp folds.

The double box pleats seem to move in a hybrid way, wafting outwards and yet swinging too. At least the video evidence seems to show that.

I can't see any reason for any of the different types of pleat not covering as well as the rest - though I did find that Kingussie style felt more draughty, but I suspect that it was just that they flowed out at the back a little more than other styles. I think that they would make good kilts for running and athletics.

Personally I settled on reverse Kingussie pleating for the kilts I make for myself as I find that they do not catch on vegetation so easily, with the pleats facing backwards. I started with knife pleating, changed to Kingussie and quickly altered them to reverse Kingussie after getting stuck in some heath.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Liam]

I'd happily box this guy...


...I'll get my coat :mrgreen:

Now, Now he is a Canadian (although I don't care for his music)

[OC Richard]

"refuse to make Box pleated kilts because they don't swing the way a proper kilt should."

Wow what a ridiculous statement by Geoffrey there. The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, Cameron Highlanders, and Seaforth Highlanders had long worn boxpleated kilts and now the entire Scottish infantry, all battalions of The Royal Regiment of Scotland, wear boxpleated kilts. I've not heard anyone say that these soldiers' kilts aren't "proper kilts". In fact the majority of Highland regimental kilts have long been boxpleated (the exceptions being the knifepleated kilts of The Black Watch and The Gordon Highlanders).

True that it takes some looking to find a kiltmaker comfortable with making full-yardage boxpleated kilts. (Elsie Stuehmeyer said she never liked making them, and she had to make loads of them at Thos Gordon.)

[TheOfficialBren]

It does seem to make for a lot of extra effort to make the so-called military box pleats but to say that they are not proper is, I agree, ludicrous!

Since many of the kilt-related fashions derive(d) from the military that mentality seems somewhat backward.

I do have a question about Geoffery's contemporary jackets. Is it just me or are they essentially a standard suit jacket worn over a kilt without a sporran? They look very modern and sharp but not sure if I would wear them. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the no-sporran-look.

What is the consensus about Mr Tailor's work (fitting name for a man of his profession)?