Visiting Scotland: Sgian Dubh's and Do(bh)n'ts

[unixken]

Well, my concern is not the awareness of the law by a policeman, or a first year law student. It's the non-legal-minded, non-kilt-wearing person who is as unfamiliar with the "national dress" exemption to a law they've never bothered to research for themselves as I am of laws concerning something I myself don't deal with in my everyday life. Let me put it this way...

"Hello... 999? Yes, I'd like to report a man with a knife..."

I highly doubt the 999 dispatcher is going to ask "Is he wearing a kilt?"

At the very least, your quiet evening dinner in a restaurant is going to be interrupted. Yes, you are completely legal. Yes, you will be allowed to go on your way without another word being said about it. But you'll still have had to deal with the police, due to someone ELSE's ignorance of the law. That is my point. Me, I prefer to eat my meal while it's still hot. ;)

[KiltFitz]

[QUOTE=unixken;1180876]
"Hello... 999? Yes, I'd like to report a man with a knife..."

I highly doubt the 999 dispatcher is going to ask "Is he wearing a kilt?"
QUOTE]

I live in Scotland. I wear a kilt quite frequently along with a sgian dubh. I have many friends who do the same.

The above scenario is not impossible but extraordinarily unlikely unless the call were placed by someone who had inexplicably found themself in Scotland without any prior notion that there is a form of traditional dress here.

As someone with experience as an emergency call handler (my part time job during my law degree) the 999 dispatcher is merely a telephonist, the police operator however would ask firther questions such as:

"what is he doing with it?"

"Well he appears to be wearing it in his sock."

"His sock? Is he wearing shorts?"

"No, some kind of skirt"

Realisation might dawn here...unless the police operator had the same level of inexperience with highland dress.

Possible but doubtful. Just my opinion. :-)

[unixken]

Here in the states, such happens far too often. I can not cite examples of this without violating rule #11. Dispatchers are not trained to determine what laws (or what exemptions to a given law, if any), apply.

What you and I might consider common sense, in the handling of such a call... just simply does not apply. But that the call occurs at all, is the problem, and is totally outside of any control the affected party might think they have over the situation.

If you think you can control whether someone else calls, or think you can control what questions a dispatcher would ask the caller, or think you can control the adrenaline level of the responding officer (maybe the call was "HURRY! HE'S GOT A KNIFE!"... not "Yeah, this guy, see... he's got a knife in his kilt sock... and he's just casually sitting down enjoying his ice cream desert, not bothering anyone..."), then perhaps you have a super power. I, as a tourist traveling in a foreign land, would rather do everything possible to minimize or prevent any interaction with law enforcement. Relying upon other people to exercise common sense is not how I'd go about that.

[Jordan]

Trying again, after the board ate my post.

Anyway, I wouldn't be so sure about this. When I go out kilted (into public, not a Games or something), I am amazed by how many people comment on the sgian, farrrrr more than say anything about my attire in general. ("Is that a knife in your sock???" {those who know me well would probably be surprised that I don't go pedantic and answer, "No, but it's a sgian dubh in my kilt hose..."}). It's hard to see much in my profile pic, I know, but that'll give you an idea of how much sticks out. I'm not even sure how people know it's a knife just from that (and I doubt that many people around here are so Highland-dress savvy that they know what a sgian dubh is). People's eyes just seem to gravitate to it.

That's I'd something I've almost never come across. The exception being an establishment asking if I have a Sgian and can I check it at the door, and meeting up with Kilties who say "That's a nice looking Sgian, can I have a look?" In my experience, and having traveled a few places now in my kilts. Most people pay more attention to the guy wandering around in a skirt than what he has hanging out of his sock.

[Jordan]

I have to agree with Kilt Fitz, it is highly unlikely that someone sitting in a restaurant enjoying a meal who has a Sgian dubh in their hose will have the police called on them.

It's not impossible of course but the odds are so against it that it's something that has never even crossed my mind before this thread.

[KiltFitz]

I think we should put this to bed now. I can well understand the concerns of someone from the States or elsewhere in the world who has seen difficult encounters regarding the wearing of a ceremonial weapon. In the United States that is.

The question was not put to us in the context of travelling in the U.S. or elsewhere. It was asked specifically in relation to travelling in Scotland and any informed opinion I might offer relates purely to Scotland and the rest of the U.K. by extension.

Naturally, I cannot offer guarantees against the absurd but I repeat that running into trouble with the police just for wearing a sgian dubh with a kilt is unlikely.

Recently, I have been to a few highland games and worn my sgian dubh at all of them. I even came into contact with the police who were unconconcerned althougnthey were happy to acquiesce to my request to fake an arrest of my friend "because he is annoyingly tall" (see pics: http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...18#post1180918). A real arrest for the same reason would be about as likely as a 999 call for a sgian dubh. Scottish police are quite approachable depending upon how they find you when they arrive.

Visitors to Scotland, a request. Please do rely upon us to exercise common sense. It's how we go about our lives and we would prefer that senseless behaviour was the exception rather than the norm. You could dream up a thousand fictional scenarios involving police, weapons, insanely agitated members of the public or robot telephonists but this will have little to do with reality or the common experience of going peacefully about your life in Scotland. Good judgement and discretion are your best protection against negative experiences.

[Liam]

[QUOTE=KiltFitz;1180887]

"Hello... 999? Yes, I'd like to report a man with a knife..."

I highly doubt the 999 dispatcher is going to ask "Is he wearing a kilt?"
QUOTE]

I live in Scotland. I wear a kilt quite frequently along with a sgian dubh. I have many friends who do the same.

The above scenario is not impossible but extraordinarily unlikely unless the call were placed by someone who had inexplicably found themself in Scotland without any prior notion that there is a form of traditional dress here.

As someone with experience as an emergency call handler (my part time job during my law degree) the 999 dispatcher is merely a telephonist, the police operator however would ask firther questions such as:

"what is he doing with it?"

"Well he appears to be wearing it in his sock."

"His sock? Is he wearing shorts?"

"No, some kind of skirt"

Realisation might dawn here...unless the police operator had the same level of inexperience with highland dress.

Possible but doubtful. Just my opinion. :-)

I find it hard to believe that someone who is not familiar with a kilt would even recognize a sgian dubh sticking out of one's hose as a knife, unless, you were to unsheathe it in his/her view.

[moggi1964]

What about my Claymore?

[WillowEstate]

Since no one but you knows it's fake, it is no less likely to cause an uncomfortable spotter to call the police. Being compelled to investigate, the police would then show up and still stop you and question you, until they determine they knife is fake. Better to not draw that kind of attention at all, as long as the populace is trained to react to the possibility of a knife. I would offer the same suggestion regarding the wearing of a sgian-bru. Those that don't know it's not a knife, will still react to it as if it were a knife.

Indeed, which, as in my original post, is why I only wear an SD at private functions. Discretion is the better part of valour.

[KiltFitz]

What about my Claymore?

See the pics.