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5th July 14, 02:05 AM
#21
Originally Posted by Mel1721L
My cultural heritage is Welsh through my mothers side of the family and the kilt/cilt is a recent arrival in that land and not widely worn. I have been made to feel uncomfortable here a couple of times because I don't have Scottish pedigree, so I have some empathy about how you feel. I recently posted a photo of homecoming Scots soldiers on parade and kilted up. one of the soldiers was black and wore the kilt along with the others and I would defy any traditionalist to say he shouldn't be wearing it because of his non Scottish ancestry.
Exactly. The kilt is uniquely Highland Scottish, yet--given that it is a type of loin cloth--is also simultaneously a variation of THE primeval, universal, multi-ethnic, cross-cultural garment, and therein lies so much of its (symbolic, historic, geneological, etc.) appeal and significance.
Best Regards,
DyerStraits
"I Wish Not To Intimidate, And Know Not How To Fear"
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5th July 14, 05:23 AM
#22
Originally Posted by Mel1721L
I recently posted a photo of homecoming Scots soldiers on parade and kilted up. one of the soldiers was black and wore the kilt along with the others and I would defy any traditionalist to say he shouldn't be wearing it because of his non Scottish ancestry.
I would like to address this point, I really doubt any of the traditionalists I know from this forum or even those I know in my real life would think that that soldier had no right to wear his kilt. As for me I would say he absolutely earned it, that I think would be the traditionalist view.
Now onto the subject of this wonderful thread. t_challa thank you for the thoughtful post and to everyone else who has answered. For my own story coming to wear the kilt grew out of my heritage, both parents were born in Scotland and we were brought up in my family with the traditions of that land. I started wearing the kilt outside the normal wedding functions as an answer to people around me asking me to wear it. I quickly became a daily kilt wearer, this daily kilt wearing lasted for 5-6 years for me, however a change in jobs made wearing the kilt daily unadvised. These days I wear the kilt for a variety of reasons but not daily, if I am going to a pub night or a wedding a funeral, Scottish Country Dancing or heck even if I simply feel like it I will wear my kilt.
I do not worry about how others wear their kilts, in fact last week I saw two different kilt wearers, one was a young man in a Utilikilt and the other was an older gentleman dressed in a more traditional manner I was happy to see both even though I would not wear a Utilikilt out of doors.
The subject of Cultural appropriation is an interesting one, for the most part I question the motives of those that appropriate the culture of others. I have a lot of diverse friends from all points on the globe, I think that is one of the wonderful things about living in Canada, if one of them were to wear the kilt it would not bother me at all, but I would question the reasons behind their choice in clothing. Recently Pharrell Williams got in trouble for wearing a Native American headdress for the cover of Esquire magazine. He explained it away with a comment that he has a percentage of Cherokee blood, though that answer does not fully address his wearing it as in that culture it is earned. So while I would not begrudge anyone their right to wear what they want I think it is prudent to be mindful of these things. Some in the know may look askance as it's just not done old chap.
Of course this brings up another interesting point, it is my contention, and I have discussed it with others as well, that if it were not for fashion and people such as us that wear the kilt for our own reasons whatever they be, that the tartan industry may indeed be in a bit of trouble. It seems unfortunate to me that kilts are mostly worn once or twice a year and otherwise hung in a closet. So in closing I will say wear it when and how you like.
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5th July 14, 09:06 AM
#23
[QUOTE=McMurdo;1242750]I would like to address this point, I really doubt any of the traditionalists I know from this forum or even those I know in my real life would think that that soldier had no right to wear his kilt. As for me I would say he absolutely earned it, that I think would be the traditionalist view.
That's good to hear. As I said, I felt uncomfortable because I didn't have Scots blood, at least to my knowledge.
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5th July 14, 09:14 AM
#24
Originally Posted by Mel1721L
My cultural heritage is Welsh through my mothers side of the family and the kilt/cilt is a recent arrival in that land and not widely worn. I have been made to feel uncomfortable here a couple of times because I don't have Scottish pedigree, so I have some empathy about how you feel. I recently posted a photo of homecoming Scots soldiers on parade and kilted up. one of the soldiers was black and wore the kilt along with the others and I would defy any traditionalist to say he shouldn't be wearing it because of his non Scottish ancestry.
I don't think even the auldist of crabbits has problems with anyone wearing the kilt as part of a uniform i.e., your example of a soldier on parade.
*edited to add: Unfortunately, civilian attire can be another story...
Last edited by CMcG; 5th July 14 at 09:46 AM.
- Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
- An t'arm breac dearg
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5th July 14, 10:43 AM
#25
Originally Posted by McMurdo
I would like to address this point, I really doubt any of the traditionalists I know from this forum or even those I know in my real life would think that that soldier had no right to wear his kilt. As for me I would say he absolutely earned it, that I think would be the traditionalist view.
Now onto the subject of this wonderful thread. t_challa thank you for the thoughtful post and to everyone else who has answered. For my own story coming to wear the kilt grew out of my heritage, both parents were born in Scotland and we were brought up in my family with the traditions of that land. I started wearing the kilt outside the normal wedding functions as an answer to people around me asking me to wear it. I quickly became a daily kilt wearer, this daily kilt wearing lasted for 5-6 years for me, however a change in jobs made wearing the kilt daily unadvised. These days I wear the kilt for a variety of reasons but not daily, if I am going to a pub night or a wedding a funeral, Scottish Country Dancing or heck even if I simply feel like it I will wear my kilt.
I do not worry about how others wear their kilts, in fact last week I saw two different kilt wearers, one was a young man in a Utilikilt and the other was an older gentleman dressed in a more traditional manner I was happy to see both even though I would not wear a Utilikilt out of doors.
The subject of Cultural appropriation is an interesting one, for the most part I question the motives of those that appropriate the culture of others. I have a lot of diverse friends from all points on the globe, I think that is one of the wonderful things about living in Canada, if one of them were to wear the kilt it would not bother me at all, but I would question the reasons behind their choice in clothing. Recently Pharrell Williams got in trouble for wearing a Native American headdress for the cover of Esquire magazine. He explained it away with a comment that he has a percentage of Cherokee blood, though that answer does not fully address his wearing it as in that culture it is earned. So while I would not begrudge anyone their right to wear what they want I think it is prudent to be mindful of these things. Some in the know may look askance as it's just not done old chap.
Of course this brings up another interesting point, it is my contention, and I have discussed it with others as well, that if it were not for fashion and people such as us that wear the kilt for our own reasons whatever they be, that the tartan industry may indeed be in a bit of trouble. It seems unfortunate to me that kilts are mostly worn once or twice a year and otherwise hung in a closet. So in closing I will say wear it when and how you like.
Excellent, well said, McMurdo. This correlates to my observation that the kilt is a uniquely traditional, yet in essence simultaneously universal (and practical, and versatile) garment which, within that expanded context, really has few cultural, sociological, geneological or ethnic boundaries. And although it has always been a versatile, practical, comfortable and distinctive garment, those qualities are obviously being re-discovered and reinterpreted at the present time. I personally am, at heart, a weeee bit of a traditionalist, and although I don't approve of and would never emulate some of the more "creative" or "alternative" ways I sometimes see kilts being worn, it is tempered by the thought that it represents an evolution of sorts (e.g., the Utilikilt) which, as McMurdo indicates, is ultimately a good thing.
The photo of me and my fellow Chicago area X Markers at our recent Highland Games and Scottish Festival visually makes the point rather well:
Last edited by DyerStraits; 5th July 14 at 10:48 AM.
Best Regards,
DyerStraits
"I Wish Not To Intimidate, And Know Not How To Fear"
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5th July 14, 11:52 AM
#26
Originally Posted by CMcG
I appreciate your well thought out post, t_challa. You've received some equally well considered replies, but I'd like to add that posting in the correct sub-forum will make for a smoother journey here at Xmarks. Your style would probably fit best—and be received with the most hearty welcome—in the Contemporarily Made Kilts and How to Wear Them section:
I had originally posted this in the member written articles section but it was moved by the forum moderators. I'll request they move it into the section you mentioned though.
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5th July 14, 12:12 PM
#27
In my opinion the only requirements to wear a kilt is to like scottish culture and as one poster said the "anthropological" connection to their own cultures rendition of the kilt.
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5th July 14, 12:53 PM
#28
Originally Posted by DyerStraits
Hawk sums it up perfectly. The thing to remember about the kilt, in my opinion, is that it is a type of loin cloth--the first garment of humanity (Adam's was made of fig leaves), worn by both Hawk's Gaelic and Native American ancestors, and my Gaelic and African and Native American ancestors (note that even today the men of the Masai tribe in East Africa wear a garment that closely resembles an unpleated, tropical version of the Great Kilt, and some historians posit that both the word "kilt"and the garment itself have Scandinavian origins). As I always say, Wear Properly (Within Context, And/Or As Circumstances Dictate), Wear It Proudly, Wear It Like You Mean It...and you'll be fine.
Kilt on, brother, we are right there with you.
I don't think the kilt is a type of loincloth. I think it is the bottom half of the blanket like feileadh mor or "great wrap". The Masai cotton garment is similar and the work they are doing (herding sheep) is also similar.
I don't also don't consider utility kits, sarongs, Hopi "kilts", grass hula skirts, Roman togas etc... to be Traditional Highland attire.
The word "Kilt" is English of Scandinavian etymological origin and means pleated, but "kilt" is simply the English word for a Gaelic garment which the Gaels called feileadh mor (great wrap) and feileadh beag (little wrap). The Gaels named the garment after the fact that it is wrapped around the body while the English speaking Scots used it's characteristic pleats to describe it. The origin of the garment in question is in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland. There is no reason to believe the garment itself has Scandinavian origins.
The modern tailored kilt is unmistakably a Highland garment regardless of the existence of other man skirts and wraps the world o'er.
Last edited by Nathan; 5th July 14 at 01:15 PM.
Natan Easbaig Mac Dhòmhnaill, FSA Scot
Past High Commissioner, Clan Donald Canada
“Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland, And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.” - The Canadian Boat Song.
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5th July 14, 12:58 PM
#29
I guess I would be a semi-traditionalist, because my leisure hot weather kilt wearing can include a tee shirt, GI Boonie Hat, and sandals. On the traditional side, my tartan is tied to a family affiliation.
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5th July 14, 01:35 PM
#30
Originally Posted by t_challa
I had originally posted this in the member written articles section but it was moved by the forum moderators. I'll request they move it into the section you mentioned though.
I didn't mean this thread in particular, which is more of a meta-discussion and probably does belong in the General Kilt Talk section. I was referring to posts about contemporary style i.e., ones where traditionalists are likely to tell you it's "wrong"
Last edited by CMcG; 6th July 14 at 05:53 AM.
- Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
- An t'arm breac dearg
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