Tradition and Change

[Taskr]

A thoughtful and eloquent post, Nathan

I am not an ancient clansman nor Celtic warrior. No one genre of music stands me in solidarity than another - though listening to Natalie and Ashley can quickly return one to home even from your own living room. I wear garments that are culturally acceptable, not to highlight any culture or bring me back to another time.

My maternal tartan tank is worn traditionally; that is, it is fastened about my natural waist with the pleats to the back. The rest is personal style, as are personal the respective styles in the linked and any of the wonderful shared photos of the rabble on this forum.

What we should do is be our unique selves saving harm of any other. What we ought to do is respect every individual for whom they are, and not only for whom or what they are expecting we recognize.

I do wear the traditional kilt proudly. It is a well made and handsome garment. I feel as good in my other wardrobe items of quality as well.

IMHO

[marypenny]

Thank you. Very well said. As a wife I really like appearing on my husband's arm when he is kilted. It speaks to our heritage and our beliefs. Comments have always been positive..but then he's a handsome man in a handsome kilt!

[Calgacus]

I think that depends on whether the utility style kilts are adopted by the Highlanders or, more broadly, the Scots. At the moment, they are mostly worn by Americans. They have been adopted as a symbol of the counterculture featuring in punk rock, hippie and goth fashion to some degree. So far, the Scots haven't really taken ownership of this type of garment.

I certainly can't predict the future but regardless of the answer to your query, this is the Traditionally Made Kilts and How to Wear Them subforum, so I think the utility kilts conversation is a bit outside of scope.

Personally, I think it unlikely that Scots will adopt utility style kilts. The reason I say this is because by and large, if a Scot is going to wear a kilt, he wants it to reflect his cultural heritage, and it will therefore most likely be a traditional tartan kilt. I have seen a few goth/rock types wearing kilts in dark black & grey tartans, but that's about as far as it goes. I would imagine that to wear a utility type kilt could possibly even be seen as a deliberate rejection of one's Scottish culture.

To illustrate, one of our former First Ministers famously wore a Howie Nicholsby pin-stripe kilt with no sporran and what appears to be a jeans waist to a fashion show in new York. It caused quite a storm here, with one paper describing it as "toe-curling", and it is often referred to as "THAT kilt". He has since said that he is "haunted" by the image.

We can be quite a conservative bunch at times.

[OC Richard]

Why should you care about wearing the kilt in a traditional manner? Don't we have the freedom to dress as we like? Should we not express our individuality through our garments? Why should we let others tell us how to dress?

It's probably not your intention, but to me the grouping of those questions suggests a dichotomy between dressing traditionally and dressing as we like, a dichotomy between dressing traditionally and expressing our individuality.

I don't think that these dichotomies exist. A person choosing to dress traditionally is expressing his individuality just as much as a person choosing to dress in some other way.

Say you're at some function at which all the men are in business suits save for one guy dressed as a punker, with a fuchsia Mohawk and loads of piercings and chains etc. One might think that the punker is "expressing his individuality" but in reality he's not doing such any more so than a guy who shows up at a punk rock club dressed in a business suit. Both styles of dress are the precise opposite of expressing individuality: both are expressing, rather, membership in groups having strict dress codes.

About Utilikilts, they originated here on the West Coast of the USA (up in Washington State) but have quickly gone from being a strange novelty to becoming a standard form of dress both within and without the Scottish community here. At our local Games, amongst non-pipe band people, Utilikilts have become as common as traditional kilts. And many people with no connexion to the Scottish community wear them as merely a different fashion style. I see men walking around in Utilikilts all the time. There's a particular look one mostly sees: they're young men from the Pacific Northwest, often with long hair, often with tattoos, and the rest of the outfit usually consists of a black t-shirt and black Doc Martens or similar boots. Nearly all of these people are wearing actual Utilikilts; I rarely see other sorts of 'casual kilts' or traditional kilts. So the Utilikilt too has become its own 'fashion culture' with a fairly specific dress code.

From the photos I see of Scotland Rugby and Football supporters in kilts, Utilikilts have had zero impact in Scotland. These Scots seem invariably dressed in more or less traditional tartan kilts, with sporrans.

[Nathan]

Fair enough, Richard. However, when someone consults a tradition rather than their own personal fancy, they are expressing themselves, but are also expressing more than themselves.

[Domehead]

Say you're at some function at which all the men are in business suits save for one guy dressed as a punker, with a fuchsia Mohawk and loads of piercings and chains etc. One might think that the punker is "expressing his individuality" but in reality he's not doing such any more so than a guy who shows up at a punk rock club dressed in a business suit. Both styles of dress are the precise opposite of expressing individuality: both are expressing, rather, membership in groups having strict dress codes.

The above quote is on point with Edward Sapir, with an elusion to Derrida. The next deconstructive step is to derive any sense of "meaning" (subsequently, any value from said "meaning") by recognizing individual self-expression as only relevant if recognized as derived from a group. Otherwise, you dressed in the dark with your toes. The "individual" aspect or component is relative - Derrida's context / outsidetext, i.e. perspective: I'm a punker because I'm not a suit. I'm a suit because I'm not a punker.

As I understand Nathan's sentiments, Highland Dress, as an expression of cultural relevance, is important because it is not South Asian Sarung, Alpine Lederhosen, Japanese Ceremonial Kimono, etc. There is no inherent value in tartan as we know it (polychromatic twill weave) because the fabric pre-dates the four kingdoms of what became Scotland. However, Derrida would say that the term "tartan" may be understood as distinctly Scottish simply because it is not associated geographically or culturally with anywhere else in a "meaningful" way (although He and the Yale School debated what was "meaning").

I believe that Nathan is saying that "meaningfulness" is almost a virtue worth preserving, if not perpetuating, in-and-of-itself. And one's presentation is a communicative commencement that if slipshod seems irreparable.

Ryan M. Liddell

[OC Richard]

when someone consults a tradition rather than their own personal fancy

I'm not expressing it very well... and Ryan's post was mostly over my head (sorry) ... but I guess I'm saying that my personal fancy IS tradition, that 'personal fancy' and 'tradition' are not in opposition if someone chooses to dress traditionally out of personal fancy (rather than be required to, say, for a job).

But at the same time the person dressing in traditional Highland Dress, like the person wearing Western Wear, or the person dressed as a Punker, or a wealthy golfer, or a conservative churchgoer, is following an unwritten dress code which declares him to be the member of a group which shares a specific manner of dress (and perhaps many other things).

I'm constantly aware of this in regards to the dress of Scottish pipe bands. Competition fosters conformity because how a band dresses declares to the judges and to the other bands whether they are "in the loop" or not. Almost without exception if a band's dress is out of date its music will be too.

[Stitchwiz]

I'm constantly aware of this in regards to the dress of Scottish pipe bands. Competition fosters conformity because how a band dresses declares to the judges and to the other bands whether they are "in the loop" or not. Almost without exception if a band's dress is out of date its music will be too.

Emboldening added.

Interesting observation, I'll certainly be paying more attention the next time I watch a competition, Richard. As always, I learn from you.

[Benning Boy]

This all reminds me of those youthful intellectual discussions we used to have back in the 1960s. Heavy, man.

[Calgacus]

I believe that Nathan is saying that "meaningfulness" is almost a virtue worth preserving, if not perpetuating, in-and-of-itself. And one's presentation is a communicative commencement that if slipshod seems irreparable.

Ryan M. Liddell

In short, yes. He is however also alluding to the question of why these things are worth preserving, which is that they are a vehicle of that which we call 'culture', the definition of which keeps eluding us, but which we seem so lost without.

I also think you meant to say the four kingdoms of what [later] became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.